00:02:18 <Wensley> god damn felids 00:02:35 <monky> sounds like a few minutes ago 00:03:02 <Wensley> I just like the symmetry with TGWi's departure/reentry 00:03:30 <monky> sdilef nmad dog 00:05:57 <due> monky is broken 00:05:58 <Henzell> due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:06:01 * due takes monky to dentist. 00:06:03 <due> !messages 00:06:03 <Henzell> (1/1) Mu_ said (3h 47m 33s ago): FUTURE MESSAGE>>>greetings, this is mu from the past, sending this Future Message to you in the future. reminder from the past: i think clouds blocking MG placement is why it's so weird in swamp (thin mist). i hope you can solve this using your future technology. end of FUTURE MESSAGE>>> 00:06:23 <due> <3 mu so much 00:07:43 <due> hm 00:07:50 <due> malign gateway can generate through walls 00:08:43 <TGWi> so can regular summons 00:09:24 <due> yes 00:09:27 <TGWi> brb, sleeping for about five hours because I'm an idiot 00:09:42 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:34 <due> bye idiot 00:19:50 <Wensley> due: what is your opinion on felids 00:20:02 <Wensley> I wish god to damn them, although I don't really care all that much 00:22:22 <due> I haven't played them 00:23:26 <monky> extra lives strikes me as silly, and all the special cases are annoying, but my opinions on the matter aren't very strong 00:24:31 <Wensley> they just feel like a "meh" race to me, although honestly there are a lot of other races that I feel that way towards 00:27:07 <sorear> IMO felids are a lot like Sprint 00:27:45 <sorear> they should be evaluated, not as a strategic choice, but as a different game 00:28:07 <Wensley> I do like the idea of a sprint-like race, but I don't know if it would be compatible with the normal game. maybe if felids gained xp and skills the same rate in crawl as they do in sprint 00:30:02 <Wensley> sorear: that's the best argument yet I've heard for felids, and is in fact the only good argument that I have heard for felids 00:30:16 <monky> I agree with sorear 00:31:31 <Wensley> I'd have to play with them more before seeing if it was true, though. it seems as though they're mostly equivalent to normal races until you get to the point where you'd normally start wearing randart armour/weapons 00:33:21 <Wensley> then I would presume them to be terrible thereafter 00:33:26 <Wensley> but I suppose we'll see 01:31:26 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:11 <sorear> kilobyte: ping 01:57:06 <due> pong 02:11:23 <due> !tell kilobyte Felid issue: all chunks are marked yellow, but you can get sick fro mthem. 02:11:24 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:20:49 <casmith789> due: that also happens with kobolds 02:21:24 <due> Interesting 02:22:27 <monky> kobolds have sap 2 though 02:23:26 <monky> though I guess rotten chunks could stand to get contaminated colouring 02:23:35 <due> felids are merely carnivore 02:44:59 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:14 <Galehar> morning 02:53:21 <kilobyte> sorear: Ashenzari is good enough for initial testing 02:53:22 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 02:53:43 <kilobyte> stuff like wrath is still not here, but all the core features are implemented 03:01:16 <sorear> kilobyte: I'm currently trying to convince someone in #adom that it is implausible to make a closed-source program work on both xterm and putty. Do I have my facts straight? 03:01:30 <Gretell> heteroy0 (L14 FeTm) ASSERT(map_bounds_with_margin(source_centre, radius)) in 'abyss.cc' at line 905 failed. (Abyss) 03:01:53 <sorear> i.e. he's a server admin and wants to do $SOMETHING to system configuration so that ncurses programs will work with xterm X11R7.0 and putty default, automatically 03:06:35 <kilobyte> is there something's bad? The only problem with putty is that it fails to recognize vt100 drawing characters, but new ncurses can deal with that. 03:08:36 <sorear> I'm referring to the fact that they use completely different sets of keypad escapes but the same $TERM 03:09:51 <due> huh 03:10:08 <due> how does one shift the abyss around the palyer... when they player is out of bounds? 03:10:49 <sorear> Crawl works around it by including a big blob of define_key calls in libunix.cc to set up the PuTTY keys even when TERM=xterm 03:11:27 <sorear> I suppose I'll need to play ptrace games eventually, might as well start now :/ 03:12:12 <kilobyte> xterm has a bug where it switches around IIRC kpad_minus to kpad_plus and kpad_plus to something else, but that's the only conflict 03:13:05 <kilobyte> I say it's a bug in xterm not putty, because I looked at older terminals (of the vt* variety), and it worked the way putty, Linux console and rxvt do 03:14:16 <sorear> so you're saying there actually isn't a problem 03:14:52 <sorear> now I'm even more confused, because we have real users with real complaints 03:16:44 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:21 <kilobyte> hmm, perhaps it is patched in Debian 03:19:50 <kilobyte> lemme check... I use putty once in half a year these days 03:20:07 <sorear> What do you have the keyboard radio buttons set to? 03:20:23 <sorear> My users say incompatibility issues go away if you select xtermr6 03:20:30 <sorear> s/My/Our/ 03:20:38 <due> sorear has users? 03:20:40 * due uses sorear. 03:20:50 <sorear> and disable application keypad mode 03:21:46 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: .] 03:22:49 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:47 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:37:14 <kilobyte> sorear: I just tried putty (on Windows) and xterm (on Debian), both seem to work even in programs that use the keypad mode 03:37:26 <kilobyte> what version of xterm is that? 03:38:03 <kilobyte> wait, wait... is that Thomas Dickey's xterm, or does X still carry its own version? 03:38:47 <sorear> The version of xterm that ncurses-base installs terminfo files for 03:39:10 <kilobyte> can you name a program that exhibits the error? 03:39:23 <sorear> we're currently on ADOM 03:40:11 <sorear> I was hoping to ask you about the mess of what appears to be PuTTY workaround code from 407-433 libunix.cc 03:40:23 <sorear> which I, for obvious reasons, can't port 03:40:30 <kilobyte> the binary ADOM ships is like 8 years old, it's possible it uses some ancient curses 03:40:39 <sorear> it's dynamically linked 03:40:43 <kilobyte> perhaps you could run tmux or screen to translate? 03:40:46 <kilobyte> ah 03:45:17 -!- monky has quit [Quit: what] 03:47:29 <kilobyte> sorear: is there ANY terminal that works for you in adom? 03:48:32 <kilobyte> I tried gnome-terminal, xterm, rxvt, putty -- directly, through tmux or screen; in no case diagonals work, and orthogonal directions work only on xterm and g-t 03:50:41 <sorear> for me, personally? vi-keys. :D 03:51:02 <kilobyte> heh 03:51:03 <due> mmmvikeys 03:51:14 <due> THE KEYS OF VI-KINGS. 03:51:17 <sorear> people on the forums report success with putty from windows with several config options changed 03:51:34 <sorear> unfortunately the full directions were not backed up anywhere. 03:52:41 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:58 -!- due changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Home of the Vi-Kings! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please. 03:53:48 <kilobyte> I once wrote something to translate arrow keys to vi so I could play rogue, but I don't have it anymore. Shouldn't be hard to recreate, though. 03:56:04 <sorear> putty has that built in now 04:13:10 <due> You open the door mimic like a pillowcase for 45!!! 04:13:52 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:21 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:37 <due> Mu my one true love. 04:14:54 <Mu_> duey 04:15:03 <due> :D 04:17:09 <kilobyte> <3 opening doors. 04:17:29 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r850d95a64d59 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Felids: don't allow arbitrary teleports on death. 04:17:29 <Mu_> you could say that a door mimic.... is the real malign gateway 04:17:29 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r642ae96e6b87 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Felids: abort ascending stairs and passwall when dying. 04:17:31 <due> i was so totally stoned yesterday 04:17:49 <due> i just spent the whole night laughing my head off in wizmode being chased by a door mimic 04:18:49 <due> i mean... it's a fucking *door* and it's trying to kill me 04:18:53 <due> how is that not hilarious? 04:19:21 <Mu_> The door handles you! 04:21:21 * Galehar ponders the longterm effects of crawling on one's sanity 04:22:40 <due> dude i'm fucking insane 04:22:51 <due> i'm sitting here with a hoodie wrapped around my head turban-style because i'm cold 04:22:54 <due> and can't be bothered to open the window 04:24:04 <due> ... close 04:24:16 <Mu_> i was already insane fyi 04:25:42 <due> true 04:25:44 <due> you use SA 04:25:46 <due> so yeah 04:26:23 <cw_> has anyone attempted/started to get DCSS to run on iOS? 04:30:33 <CIA-40> 03due * r2172c6ab0374 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Let Malign Gateway form on shallow water. (Mu) 04:30:33 <CIA-40> 03due * r260cd2908b2a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h traps.cc traps.h): Tweak feature mimics: trap mimics. 04:31:29 <due> oh 04:31:32 <due> i didn't mean to port that 04:31:35 <due> .. no push 04:31:40 <due> cw_: iPad/ 04:32:03 <cw_> due: if that was a question mark, then yes :) 04:32:08 <due> um 04:32:15 <due> ixtli-dearly-departed was working on an iPad port 04:33:32 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r2dfdeb80802c 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Felids: neither Okawaru nor Trog have anything to give to you. 04:33:33 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r9c05b0212770 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Felids: memorizing Portal Projectile is useless. 04:33:45 <due> USELESS 04:34:03 <cw_> perhaps I can assist then 04:34:03 <cw_> is that an IRC nick? 04:34:04 <due> How small are felids? 04:34:10 <due> cw_: ixtli is their nick 04:34:15 <due> cw_: but I haven't seen hide nor hair of them recently 04:34:23 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:34:42 <cw_> http://github.com/ixtli/crawl 04:34:43 <cw_> boom 04:34:45 <kilobyte> due: currently size -3, but due to insane EV I'm considering making them -2 04:35:11 <due> cw_: TADA 04:35:12 <kilobyte> but then, that would be spriggan-sized. Norwegian Forest or a lynx. 04:35:19 <due> Oooh lynxian. 04:35:24 <due> `lynx' ftw 04:35:35 * cw_ clones 04:35:39 <cw_> bet it doesn't compile 04:37:50 <Galehar> kilobyte: you asked yesterday about debugging crawl under windows. I just did it with the gdb shipped with msysgit, it works prefectly fine. 04:39:27 <Zao> Galehar: Last I tried debugging crawl with that, it terminated the debugger and inferior whenever I tried to break with Ctrl-C. 04:39:38 <Zao> Works for intercepting aborts and such, I guess. 04:39:56 <due> there's windgbdgdmbgdgb or something like that no? 04:40:05 <due> but i couldn't work ou thow to get a sane backtrace withit so i gave up 04:40:37 <Galehar> Zao: I used the break command to set up a break point 04:41:23 <due> mmmbreak 04:41:30 <kilobyte> Galehar: hmm, it didn't either break nor trace the source for me... it might be because of some incompatibility between the versions of mingw, though 04:41:34 <Galehar> Zao: I first tried to debug the console version, but the display was fucked up and I didn't know how to fix it. Debugging the tiles version was easy. 04:41:48 <due> ... tiles?! oh noes 04:41:51 <Zao> Galehar: I was of course trying to debug why the window didn't draw anything at all on my laptop, so there wasn't any decent place to put a breakpoint :) 04:42:30 <Galehar> maybe somwhere in windowmanager-sdl.cc 04:42:59 <kilobyte> due: that commit you didn't mean to push, does it break anything? 04:43:21 <Zao> Galehar: I ended up reproing it with a program of my own, and chalked it up to drivers. 04:44:00 <due> kilobyte: it shouldn't 04:44:10 <due> kilobyte: i was just going to work on stairs now and push them later 04:44:41 <kilobyte> ok, I'll update CDO to spite those sprint bastards who abuse teleport on death 04:45:01 <due> considering my current mental state I'm probably not supposed to be coding 04:48:52 <Mu_> stair mimics? 04:49:00 <due> yes 04:49:04 <Mu_> nice 04:49:07 <due> pretends to be a relevant branch staitr 04:49:33 <Mu_> vault entrance vault: the entrance + a dozen mimics 04:50:46 <due> mwahaha 04:50:46 <kilobyte> Unstable branch on CDO updated to: 0.8.0-a0-1929-g9c05b02 (31.5 04:50:55 <kilobyte> Mu_: <3 04:52:48 <due> i fucking love mu 04:53:00 <Mu_> same 04:53:07 <due> i was going to limit it to down stairs mimics but nowi'm not so sure 04:55:02 <Galehar> upstairs is a must, picture this: nasty encounter, teleport, fleeing, low on health, upstairs, I'm saved! The upstairs hit you. wait, what? You die... 04:55:33 <Adeon> you are evil! 04:57:36 <cw_> in theory you should have the upstairs mapped out anyway 04:58:42 <Galehar> it depends. Not everybody take the time to try the 3 downstairs before exploring the next level 04:59:16 <Galehar> But with stairs mimics, maybe it will be more common :) 04:59:42 <Mu_> heteroy's felid is XL22 and he hasn't even cleared lair yet 05:00:02 <kilobyte> uhm, exp aptitude 140 05:00:18 <Mu_> he's been farming wonders decks 05:00:32 <due> heteroy is a mongrel arsehole farmer 05:00:51 <due> but a lovable one 05:11:57 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 05:41:11 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:13 <galehar_> is there any way to set up git with ssh keys so that I don't have to type my password each time I pull or push? 05:42:55 <kilobyte> galehar_: you add them to your SourceForge account 05:43:13 <galehar_> ok, thanks 05:53:50 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:25 <CIA-40> 03raphael.langella * r7265908f7766 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc item_use.cc): miscellaneous items need to be wielded to be evoked 05:55:28 <CIA-40> 03raphael.langella * rb3e942a29e1d 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: handle actions from inventory for miscellaneous items 05:56:28 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:05 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:58 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: I'm enjoying playing the Felid. Two minor things: FePr of Y is pretty good (and lets you raise your own corpses), should perhaps be unrestricted. 06:01:19 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: The second one is that confusing touch has no "your paws begin to glow" message (I think there is one for hands) 06:02:14 <Keskitalo> I enjoy the restricted equipment, less things to consider. :P 06:03:06 <Mu_> someone on SA had okawaru acquirement fail while playing a felid, got the demon of infinite voids message 06:04:15 <due> Yeah, that would happen 06:04:35 <Keskitalo> Hey due! 06:04:46 <Mu_> oh, can they use no armour or weapons at all? :P 06:04:57 <Keskitalo> Yup! =^_^= 06:05:00 <Mu_> need kitty bardings :P 06:05:07 <Keskitalo> Aaarrrggh, no!! 06:05:30 <Keskitalo> Confusing Touch just made this game a lot easier. :P 06:06:29 <Keskitalo> Altough I already had an ogre-killer in Pain Mirror. Oh well, spares piety! 06:06:37 <Keskitalo> <3 the Yred changes 06:06:56 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:20 <Keskitalo> for some reason, I feel much more comfortable using 'a' than 'p' for Pain Mirror, I remember to use it and I feel less like sparing it for special circumstances 06:07:26 <Keskitalo> which would mean I die before I use it 06:08:05 <Mu_> due did you get MG to ignore clouds 06:08:42 <due> kinda 06:08:52 <due> I made it generate on shallow water. 06:08:57 <Keskitalo> Forgetting from books is nice. 06:09:36 <Mu_> i was failing to cast it in the cold swamp ending room until the freezing vapour receded enough :P 06:09:49 <galehar_> Keskitalo: dpeg's idea, my implementation 06:10:53 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:27 <Keskitalo> galehar_: Thanks for all the work recently and welcome to the team too :) 06:13:57 <Mu_> my local build still hangs when i try to enter hell 06:14:02 <galehar_> :) 06:14:43 <Mu_> is that just me? 06:20:32 <kilobyte> Mu_: fixed Okawaru's gifts already; thanks for info about conf touch 06:20:53 <kilobyte> and I tested Ashenzari... he's insanely underwhelming 06:21:13 <kilobyte> for a stalker, the class that's supposed to benefit from him the most 06:21:26 <due> kilobyte: blade hands message should be paws 06:21:34 <Keskitalo> can't wait to check out Ash :) 06:21:37 <Keskitalo> Felids seem good 06:21:50 <Keskitalo> Already wasted a life, or maybe even two 06:21:55 <kilobyte> you get antennae which matters, the rest is hardly relevant 06:21:59 <Keskitalo> That Crazy Yiuf killed me once! 06:22:13 <kilobyte> due: blade paws are supposed to not work 06:22:25 <due> why not? :( 06:22:33 <due> BLADE PAWS KITTY 06:22:53 <kilobyte> how are you supposed to walk? 06:23:06 <due> carefully 06:28:57 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:31 <Keskitalo> Hehee, TSO's Divine Shield and Condensation Shield are pretty good for Felids. 06:36:35 <due> omg omg omg door mimic vault 06:45:03 <CIA-40> 03raphael.langella * r8ecffd16228c 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: inscribe from inventory nicer with small terminals 06:45:33 -!- galehar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:49 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:49 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 06:50:49 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:30 <due> Okay you get smoe random stair functions. 06:51:45 <CIA-40> 03due * r3b17ff45c75d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (stairs.cc stairs.h): Functions for random stairs. 06:53:12 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:20 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:26 <bmh> hey 07:16:10 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:26:52 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:55 <dpeg> !seen kilobyte 07:26:56 <Henzell> I last saw kilobyte at Mon Oct 11 12:04:30 2010 UTC (22m 26s ago) saying !lm * race=felid max=xl on ##crawl. 07:26:57 <bmh> hey dpeg 07:27:00 <dpeg> Hi! 07:27:03 <due> hi dpeg! 07:27:06 <bmh> dpeg: I had a job interview this afternoon -- crawl came up 07:27:07 <due> I am sleep though 07:27:15 <bmh> My interviewer mentioned Dwarf Fortress 07:27:16 <dpeg> bmh: wow. Was it good or bad for you? :) 07:27:16 <due> bmh: how does crawl come up in a job interview? 07:27:31 <due> bah DF :) 07:27:34 <bmh> due: I told him that I was interested in procedural generation. 07:27:44 <bmh> I told him to check out crawl and gave him the link for crawl.develz.org 07:27:44 <due> ahhh 07:27:48 <due> nice! 07:27:55 <dpeg> bmh: who is "he"? 07:28:03 <due> job interviewer, I presume. 07:28:08 <bmh> correct 07:28:38 <due> dpeg: once I'm done with feature mimics, I promise I'll makean old, boring monster interesting before I do tentacled starspawn :) 07:28:39 <dpeg> !tell kilobyte Cobbled together a todo on the Ash wiki. Not much to do for you unless you want to take on some of the flavour pieces (all of which are non-controversial, I hope). Thanks! 07:28:40 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 07:28:45 <dpeg> due: cool! 07:29:16 * dpeg whispers strange words like t r o v e and w i z l a b into due's ear. 07:29:22 <dpeg> :) 07:32:31 <dpeg> Does anyone know what purple draconians breathe right now? 07:32:54 <dpeg> zipcode changed, and I have no doubts his version is better than status quo.... but what is status quo? 07:33:18 <Mu_> i think they breathe the rod of smiting thing? 07:33:32 <dpeg> thank you 07:33:39 <Mu_> i might be wrong 07:33:43 <Mu_> it's not very good whatever it is 07:34:50 <casmith789> purple dracs breathe mystic blasts I thought? 07:35:05 <Mu_> seriously? 07:36:06 <dpeg> ah, right 07:36:11 <dpeg> purple was the "pure Spc" guy 07:36:15 <dpeg> poor sob 07:37:28 <dpeg> I think zipcode's patch is good to go. Marked it as such on Mantis. 07:41:36 <dpeg> later 07:45:38 <kilobyte> !tell dpeg I tested Ashenzari a bit, and I'm afraid he's really, really underwhelming. The only useful things are antennae, the rest is hardly relevant. Even for a stalker. 07:45:39 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:45:40 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:45:54 <bmh> dpeg: re: wrath patch, I'd prefer to pull it into trunk ASAP to avoid merge hell later. 07:46:56 <syllogism-> oh I assumed Ashenzari is still missing some abilities 07:49:42 <kilobyte> syllogism-: almost all from the initial plan is coded (no wrath, no shapeshifter detection) 07:50:36 -!- Galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:50:48 <syllogism-> that does look pretty underwhelming then 07:51:03 <syllogism-> seeing through walls is cool and all but the abilities are all so passive 07:54:39 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:43 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:03 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:06 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:52 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:47 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:19 <Keskitalo> I doubt I'll manage anything productive today so I guess I'll just play the Felid and hang out here.. :) 08:38:38 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:34 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:04 <dpeg> bmh: please say so on Mantis 08:42:05 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:43:08 -!- Hehfiel has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:18 <dpeg> kilobyte: we also boosts from curses to play with 08:45:25 <Keskitalo> Heyy dpeg! 08:45:54 <dpeg> Hi! 08:45:59 <kilobyte> dpeg: yeah... like, that extra XP has a potential to be brokenly good 08:46:13 -!- Hehfiel has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:37 <Keskitalo> And then plateau at XL27 (though I guess skills matter more) 08:46:46 <kilobyte> and "thoroughly underwhelming" and "potential to be brokenly good" match pretty well 08:47:13 <kilobyte> xl is hardly anything... just hp and a bit of mr 08:48:10 <Keskitalo> dpeg: I find the Yrdy adjustments great, Animate Remains/Dead combo is <3, and I'm much more eager to use Pain Mirror now that it's an ability. 08:48:46 <Keskitalo> dpeg: I agree that the boosts from curses gives us a lot of playroom, so I wouldn't worry 08:49:06 <Keskitalo> Hehe, I just pawed a hound in the nose and it ran screaming 08:49:59 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: I like not being able to use wands 08:50:59 <dpeg> Keskitalo: also dolorous has been addressing the gifts. 08:51:03 <dpeg> I like Yrdy. 08:51:09 <dpeg> @?whereis dpeque 08:51:10 <Gretell> unknown monster: "whereis dpeque" 08:51:12 <dpeg> ?@whereis dpeque 08:51:17 <dpeg> grrr :) 08:51:32 <dpeg> ok, back later 08:51:39 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yeah, I just got my first one 08:51:44 <kilobyte> we need to do something with Nemelex, badly 08:51:52 <Keskitalo> I enjoy Yrdy a lot as well. 08:52:01 <kilobyte> heteroy just scummed him so he had xl27 by early lair 08:52:47 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: I've played very little Nemelex, but the war stories (like that) sound a bit bad, yeah :) 09:21:18 <syllogism-> heh, termrec false positive with superantispyware 09:25:49 <kilobyte> syllogism-: wtf... niiice 09:26:22 <kilobyte> interesting which part of the code they thought might look like something vaguely spywareish 09:26:50 <syllogism-> it thought it was a trojan 09:27:20 <syllogism-> I flagged it as a false positive and sent them a report since it was easy enough 09:27:57 <syllogism-> Trojan.Agent/Gen-UsrMgr 09:28:15 <Keskitalo> New Yred gifts: getting wights and flying skulls at this point makes sense, they're useful 09:28:24 <Keskitalo> so far so good 09:28:33 <Napkin> @whereis dpeque 09:28:35 <Gretell> dpeque the Grim Reaper (L22 DSFi), a worshipper of Yredelemnul, saved on D:27 on 2010-10-10 after 110637 turns. 09:28:51 <Keskitalo> Heyy Napkin! 09:28:57 <Napkin> Eino! :D 09:29:07 <Napkin> What's uuuup? 09:29:49 <Keskitalo> Testing out the Felids, I already animated one of my own skeletons 09:30:04 <Napkin> oh, nice :) 09:30:25 <Keskitalo> I think this is very Crawl-y 09:30:38 <syllogism-> oh that's nice 09:31:01 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r2b22e3315d45 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Felids: scrolls of Enchant Foo are all useless. 09:31:01 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r8e02ebef2a8c 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: Felids: mark weapon-branding spell and Tukima's Dance as useless. 09:32:31 <syllogism-> your corpse isn't named though :( 09:33:26 <kilobyte> indeed, should be 09:35:59 <OG17> monster cats should be the same speed as player cats, given that they only show up as player corpses 09:56:55 <Keskitalo> @?? dragon skeleton 09:56:55 <Gretell> dragon skeleton (15Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 12 | Health: 70-101 | AC/EV: 4/1 | Damage: 16, 11, 11 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 413. 09:57:03 <Keskitalo> @?? dragon 09:57:03 <Gretell> dragon (03D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 70-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 20, 13, 13 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1356 | Sp: flame blast (3d24). 09:57:16 <Keskitalo> Does that mean dragon skeletons don't fly? 09:57:39 <Keskitalo> @?? dragon zombie 09:57:39 <Gretell> dragon zombie (07Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 12 | Health: 85-123 | AC/EV: 8/3 | Damage: 16, 11, 11 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 483. 09:57:45 <Keskitalo> Probably not. 10:04:32 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:07 <dpeg> dolorous would know 10:10:06 <Keskitalo> well, I'll wizmode.. I was just thinking if skeleton geckos should retain wall-clinging, since their feet flesh has rotted away :P 10:10:12 <Keskitalo> maybe too much thinking there? 10:10:15 <Keskitalo> maayyyybe 10:11:08 <Keskitalo> well, dragon skeletons can fly, soo.. 10:11:20 <Keskitalo> skeletal geckos should crawl the walls too 10:16:01 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:41 <dpeg> Keskitalo: yes, I think so 10:28:51 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r5244535d5401 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc describe.h godwrath.cc mon-act.cc player.cc): Add spacing fixes. 10:28:52 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r84c7a45a33a5 10/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc: Add formatting fix. 10:46:52 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:36 <Ashenzari> Felids shouldn't autopickup wands (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2708) by nubinia 10:47:45 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:59 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:04 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 10:58:45 -!- MakMorn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:43 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:02 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:09 -!- Galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:07:15 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:13:22 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:53 <Ashenzari> Felid corpse tile missing (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2709) by Ashenai 11:39:25 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:51 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:17 -!- monky has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:18 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:02 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13:18 <casmith789> felid death teleport in sprint 2 is too good 12:14:01 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:14 <kilobyte> still? 12:14:21 <casmith789> yes 12:14:29 <casmith789> in sprint 1 & 3 though it doesn't matter 12:14:43 <casmith789> I think, because the orb isn't that close to an easily accessible area 12:15:00 <casmith789> maybe 1, but 1 can be corrupted anyway 12:15:13 <casmith789> I used a combination of corruption + death teleport just to do sprint 2 12:15:17 <kilobyte> it can't move you farther than 10 squares away... but that's indeed may be still problematic 12:17:37 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:09 <dpeg> kilobyte: just playing an Ashenzarite. 12:19:58 <dpeg> Got a bunch of ideas... this god can be quite cool. 12:22:31 <kilobyte> an idea: s/Scrying/something else (like Astral Vision)/, then we can make Scrying let you choose any place on the map and show the view from that place 12:22:50 <kilobyte> you don't get to look closely, merely as if you Xom-teleported there and back 12:22:53 <dpeg> kilobyte: that's an option, yes 12:23:11 <dpeg> I opted for the current scrying because that's the simplest way to start it off 12:23:21 <upsy> is the piety gain based on proportion of cursed slots rather than number? 12:23:30 <dpeg> upsy: sort of 12:23:39 <upsy> my felid with three curses seemed to get to max stars very quickly 12:23:42 <kilobyte> upsy: the number of "bound" types 12:23:57 <kilobyte> piety gains are currently insane 12:23:58 <dpeg> upsy: yes, piety gain needs to be reviewed 12:24:43 <dpeg> kilobyte: the detections can be very good... but we can do better: most items are boring, so if we only show some, but those are (generally) useful, that'd be cool. 12:24:49 <kilobyte> another question: trunk considers a type bound if you have more than half cursed/wearable, the wiki says cursed/worn 12:24:55 <upsy> and is it just mislead immunity or full clarity that you get from "helps you to think straight"? 12:25:05 <dpeg> With monsters, there are threats and non-threats. Would be cool to distinguish that visually. 12:25:10 <kilobyte> upsy: both 12:25:15 <upsy> thanks 12:25:23 <dpeg> kilobyte: I meant cursed/worn 12:25:25 <upsy> just wanted to clarify that...no pun intended 12:25:26 <dpeg> so 1/1 is okay 12:26:08 <kilobyte> so having a cursed amulet but no rings would count 12:26:23 <kilobyte> right now you need two jewelry slots cursed 12:26:25 <upsy> not sure that clarity fits that well, and it is pretty powerful 12:27:02 <dpeg> kilobyte: yes, at least that was my plan 12:27:09 <kilobyte> ok, will change 12:27:24 <dpeg> kilobyte: there will be more changes anyway, so if you object, then don't :) 12:27:42 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r1248d45908bd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (rltiles/dc-corpse.txt rltiles/dc-mon.txt tilepick.cc): Felids: assign a corpse tile. 12:27:56 <kilobyte> for piety gain, would half of what it is currently be ok? 12:28:02 <dpeg> absolutely 12:28:23 <Gretell> hayenne (L12 FeBe) ASSERT(probe != attack_constraints.connection_constraints->end()) in 'mon-abil.cc' at line 1502 failed. (Sprint) 12:28:47 <dpeg> I believe that your mechanic of adding ?RC to the Curse Foo pool is okay. There aren't so terribly many RC scrolls around, after all. 12:31:28 -!- rkd has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:31 <bmh> dpeg, kilobyte: how quickly should debt decay? 4 levels explored? 5 levels explored? 12:35:15 <dpeg> bmh: how much debt? 12:35:27 <bmh> dpeg: 200, say 12:36:37 <kilobyte> well, the number "200" doesn't tell us much 12:36:50 <bmh> kilobyte: 200 is the max, it's on the same scale as piety 12:37:45 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:45 <UbAh> Hi all 12:39:04 <UbAh> I keep runing into problems with the deps included make file 12:39:12 <UbAh> on diff flavors of lin 12:39:45 <UbAh> I spent some insomniac time looking into it and it seems you are calling to a file in your contrib path that is not included 12:40:12 <UbAh> ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL.a ../contrib/install/lib/libSDLmain.a ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL_image.a 12:40:25 <dpeg> neunon: around? 12:41:09 <UbAh> all are not in the contrib, I could point the file to another location but I dont even know where to get those files as they dont seem to be part of my standard SDL install 12:42:07 <UbAh> so I am both reporting something to include in the next file and asking where to get those libs 12:42:17 <dpeg> I cannot help, sorry. 12:42:29 <dpeg> But there are more knowledgeable people. 12:42:32 <UbAh> np I am hoping someone checks in who can 12:43:11 <Zannick> did git submodule update --init not get them? 12:43:27 <UbAh> not using git 12:43:30 <dpeg> bmh: I believe that the debts should be a more long time affair. 12:43:33 <UbAh> this is from the sourceforge 12:43:50 <Zannick> oh, sorry 12:43:59 <UbAh> hi Zannick you were around when I came on the other day trying to get it to work 12:43:59 <bmh> dpeg: OK. How much exploration to burn a full meter of debt? 10 levels? 15? 12:44:23 <bmh> (remember that god gifts reduce the debt timeout rate) 12:44:27 <Zannick> i don't know, then, i think normally you build the libs first 12:44:44 <Zannick> can't help much 12:45:22 <UbAh> yea I looked online and cant find what package includes those files 12:45:28 <UbAh> I have the standard SDL install 12:46:17 <UbAh> I decided to change distro for a change and I am on fedora today instead of the slack variant I was yesterday 12:46:23 <UbAh> both have the same problem 12:46:27 <Zao> You most probably want sdl_image. 12:46:36 <Zao> (additionally) 12:47:07 <UbAh> I have SDL_image and those files were not part of it 12:47:27 <UbAh> did the usual updatedb and locate for them 12:49:24 <dpeg> bmh: perhaps ten levels for a start 12:49:32 <Zannick> you have sdl_image but not a libSDL_image.a? 12:49:37 <dpeg> bmh: you also have to tell us when debt is increased and by how much? 12:50:00 <bmh> dpeg: When you use a power that costs piety, you get random2avg(piety,2) debt 12:50:23 <bmh> That includes Jiyva slime paralyzation and fedhas fruit tricks 12:50:26 <UbAh> # /usr/lib/libSDL_image-1.2.so.0 12:51:14 <kilobyte> so Makhebites and Troggies get mountains of debt 12:51:28 <kilobyte> since they gain a lot and burn a lot 12:51:54 <bmh> Makhleb and Trog seem like particularly vengeful gods, don't they? 12:52:06 <kilobyte> right 12:52:19 <UbAh> Trog the warm and fluffy one 12:52:47 <dpeg> I am a bit worried that players would simply do the following before changing a god: not use powers; explore enough levels; change. 12:53:12 <ortoslon> wouldn't increasing debt for neme's Draw Card encourage players to wield-evoke instead? 12:53:34 <dpeg> that too 12:53:41 <bmh> ortoslon: Why doesn't the piety cost for draw card do that anyway? 12:53:53 <casmith789> no piety cost 12:54:25 <bmh> dpeg: Your god should be less angry with you if you do that than if you bail after getting a shiny new toy 12:54:59 <bmh> "Thanks for saving my butt, Trog. Bye!" 12:55:15 <Gretell> hayenne (L12 FeBe) ASSERT(probe != attack_constraints.connection_constraints->end()) in 'mon-abil.cc' at line 1502 failed. (D:1 (Sprint)) 12:55:19 <ortoslon> i read that as "shaving" 12:55:46 <UbAh> Mino of Trog the warm and fluffy with the shaved ass 12:55:55 <UbAh> thats a title 12:56:40 <UbAh> so besides neunon is there anyone I should send this too? 12:57:39 <ortoslon> dpeg: i think ely's destroy weapons and trog's burn books should be debt-free too 12:57:52 <bmh> ortoslon: agreed. 12:59:34 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * ra53213bcb0ee 10/crawl-ref/source/godpassive.cc: Ashenzari: wielded cursed non-weapons are considered not cursed. 12:59:35 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r47aa4aa8fd99 10/crawl-ref/source/godpassive.cc: Ashenzari: count cursed/worn, not cursed/wearable. 12:59:36 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r6a522124bb36 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Ashenzari: cut the run-away piety gain rate by half. 12:59:38 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r721cdb18e0a5 10/crawl-ref/source/mislead.cc: Fix mislead being blocked when you don't have enough Ashenzari piety yet. 13:02:10 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:47 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:13 <dpeg> bmh: as far as I see it, the new god changing system would be (apart from emergency cases like Lugonu in the Abyss) about the choice between spending some levels (this less future piety) godless and less/no wrath, or wrath and new god right away. 13:03:41 <bmh> dpeg: Seems fair to me 13:04:11 <dpeg> bmh: I am not so sure... need to think about it. 13:04:44 <dpeg> I definitely want that former gods are somewhat unhappy if you start doing very bad things (like burning books if you followed Sif before). 13:04:56 <dpeg> But this is regardless of the wrath model, it seems.- 13:05:31 <bmh> dpeg: ok, that's easy. You just check to see i the player is under penance for a god when checking conduct 13:06:54 <dpeg> bmh: I think it's best if you describe your model as detailed as possible on the wiki. 13:06:59 <dpeg> I can and will think about and then comment. 13:07:04 <bmh> ok 13:07:04 <dpeg> Debt is surely a good tracker. 13:07:07 <dpeg> thank you 13:07:19 <dpeg> still fighting with tex & eps over here 13:07:28 <bmh> hm? 13:07:38 <bmh> What are you trying to do with tex? 13:07:49 <rkd> ash starting to become more playable in trunk? 13:10:23 <kilobyte> dpeg: so, what's the decision for the big boost for Ash? 13:10:35 <kilobyte> extra XP gain, right? 13:10:45 <kilobyte> if so, I wonder how much 13:11:17 <kilobyte> the wiki proposes per-item not per-type, but that would confuse people 13:11:21 <dpeg> bmh: finetuning my wife's phd 13:11:39 <dpeg> kilobyte: best per bound component, right? 13:11:50 <bmh> dpeg: Why don't you run the eps files through imagemagick and turn them into something less explodey 13:12:02 <dpeg> for latex, eps files are good 13:12:21 <bmh> they occasionally have bounding box issues 13:12:32 <dpeg> yes, but not my ones, checked already 13:13:48 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:52 <dpeg> kilobyte: there are various ways what to do: (a) xp multiplier based on bound parts; (b) faster skill training by multiplier; (c) ability to push skill xp around. 13:14:20 <dpeg> kilobyte: I believe that running around in cursed items should also have some tactical advantage... the wiki had the idea of faster MP/HP regeneration... 13:14:35 <st_> wasnt there some proposed manual/sage type stuff? 13:16:23 <dpeg> yes, that is another idea 13:16:55 <Eronarn> i think faster MP/HP regen is pretty borign 13:17:01 <Eronarn> it has the same problem as chei - it's just a flat 'you are better' boost 13:17:18 <dpeg> decent proposals or I won't listen 13:17:33 <Mu_> bad luck aura :3 13:17:46 * dpeg slaps Mu with a cursed rainbow trout. 13:18:04 <Mu_> it fits theme more than regeneration :P 13:18:15 <monky> Mu_: with a luck stat a la nethack? 13:19:43 <Eronarn> proposal: don't add a generic ability to ash just because nobody's thought of something more interesting yet 13:19:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:54 <Mu_> enemies caught in the aura would have a chance of bad things happening to them 13:19:58 <dpeg> Eronarn: dismissed 13:20:03 <dpeg> Mu_: well, bound magic (ie. jewellery) would lead to MP regen; bound body (armour) would lead to HP regen. 13:20:32 <Eronarn> Mu_: i think a 'good' bad luck aura would actually be more interesting - enemies only have bad luck when they try to influence you 13:20:46 <Eronarn> rather than just falling over themselves and landing on their swords 13:21:54 <kilobyte> that'd be close to just giving you an EV and MR boost 13:22:00 <Mu_> 'just'? :P you can come up with a ton of fun things enemies could do based on bein unlucky :P 13:22:03 <UbAh> been reading and if I am not out of line to make a comment, would bad luck on enemies be an ev boost 13:22:19 <Eronarn> it depends how it's implemented 13:22:19 <UbAh> ah kilo beat me to it 13:22:34 <Eronarn> it could be a flat miss chance, for example, which is different from a straight EV boost 13:22:44 <UbAh> monster miscast effects 13:22:47 <Eronarn> or it could be damage reduction, so they still hit, but get much weaker hits in 13:22:53 <dpeg> reliable MP regen would be new, btw 13:22:58 <Mu_> they could hit their friends or fall in holes or have miscasts or drop their weapons or fire the bow instead of the arrow or :P 13:23:08 <dpeg> neither M nor S nor V give that 13:23:11 <Eronarn> Mu_: yes, that's the kind of thing that i mean that's silly 13:23:24 <Eronarn> it doesn't feel like it fits ash at all 13:23:41 <Eronarn> he's a god of divination with a curse theme, not a god of slapstick humor 13:23:43 <dpeg> that's just opinionating 13:23:57 <rkd> feels more like something the trickster god nemelex would do 13:23:58 <rkd> or xom 13:24:11 <Zannick> xom would enjoy seeing that, at least 13:25:07 <UbAh> curse smite damage back to succsessful attacks 13:25:16 <Mu_> it would be interesting 13:25:16 <UbAh> attackers* 13:25:22 <dpeg> I believe that passive detections could be improved if we dare to classify items as useful (or not) and items are threats (or not). 13:25:31 <Eronarn> UbAh: yred already has something like that 13:25:32 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:42 <kilobyte> indeed, slapstick doesn't fit him, and boosting regen would be something physical 13:25:45 <dpeg> Keskitalo: Hi! 13:25:51 <Keskitalo> Hello! 13:25:55 <kilobyte> Keskitalo: meow! 13:25:57 <UbAh> ahh I dont know cuz I cant get anyting new to compile :-( 13:25:57 <rkd> ash could for example allow you to see enchantments/brands on monster armour/weapons :P 13:26:10 <Keskitalo> Ash's abilities complement out-of-LOS allies pretty well. :/ 13:26:11 <Eronarn> rkd: that's such a minor boost though 13:26:19 <UbAh> just hanging around to see if someone can help and thought I would chime in 13:26:26 <dpeg> @whereis Infest 13:26:27 <Gretell> Infest the Slicer (L11 DSAs), a worshipper of Ashenzari, saved on Lair:2 on 2010-10-11 after 19780 turns. 13:26:38 <Eronarn> personally i would rather see new kinds of curses 13:26:41 <dpeg> UbAh: look for neunon 13:26:51 <Eronarn> such that curse isn't just 'you can't take this item off' 13:26:59 <UbAh> yea waiting till my caffiene runs out 13:27:20 <dpeg> Keskitalo: been playing too? 13:27:22 <UbAh> I dont IRC much, if I msg him will he get it when he comes back? 13:27:28 <dpeg> UbAh: yes 13:27:38 <dpeg> UbAh: or rather, use !tell 13:27:48 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yup, I have a FePr in Lair and now I started a DEWz of A. 13:28:06 <kilobyte> of Zin or Yred? 13:28:11 <Keskitalo> Y of course ;) 13:28:14 <UbAh> !tell neunon 13:28:14 <Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 13:28:25 <Mu_> i can't think of anything else that fits with cursed gear tbh 13:28:31 <UbAh> !tell neunon I keep runing into problems with the deps included make file on diff flavors of lin 13:28:31 <Henzell> UbAh: OK, I'll let neunon know. 13:28:36 <kilobyte> Fe of Zin are so utterly anti-thematic I wonder if they shouldn't be banned 13:28:38 <UbAh> !tell neunon I spent some insomniac time looking into it and it seems you are calling to a file in your contrib path that is not included 13:28:38 <Henzell> UbAh: OK, I'll let neunon know. 13:28:46 <dpeg> Keskitalo: I made a little todo on the wiki. What I think is important: item and monster detection should tell you about _relevant_ items and monsters. That's hard, but we should be able to do something there. 13:28:49 <UbAh> thx henzell 13:28:52 <Eronarn> Mu_: yes, cursed gear is a bit niche 13:29:23 <kilobyte> dpeg: as in NetHack's new warning? 13:29:25 <Eronarn> there are plenty of 'bad things' that gear does, that aren't technically curses right now 13:29:30 <dpeg> Keskitalo: then I said that cursed gear should have some tactical benefits, and now folks are trying to reinvent the meaning of "curse". 13:29:31 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Sounds interesting 13:29:39 <UbAh> if he is divination, why not a chance to ID items monsters are wearing/wielding 13:29:40 <dpeg> kilobyte: sort of, but we could still do better :) 13:29:49 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Heh. :) 13:29:50 <Eronarn> UbAh: this is a really, really ,really minor benefit 13:29:59 <kilobyte> Eronarn: it fits the current theme of "bound" rather that "bad luck" 13:30:18 <dpeg> Eronarn: the point is not that "curse=sticky item" is too boring. The point is that with this definition an Ashenzarite has a lot less flexibility, which is an interesting downside. 13:30:23 <UbAh> what else from the old div tree are you wanting to bring back? 13:30:27 <kilobyte> (heh, "new". As in, only 12 years or so old) 13:30:32 <dpeg> UbAh: we have almost all 13:30:35 <dpeg> kilobyte: yes :) 13:30:46 <dpeg> kilobyte: bleeding edge NH technology 13:30:46 <Eronarn> dpeg: i'm not saying curses shouldn't be sticky, but rather than curses could do other things, also 13:31:12 <dpeg> Eronarn: and I am saying that that's not really necessary. Sticky provides the tactical challenge, and now we want a tactical benefit. 13:31:15 <kilobyte> Eronarn: you do have bigger mummies doing that 13:31:20 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:40 <Eronarn> dpeg: i don't think any of the tactical benefits proposed so far fit the god well 13:31:55 <Eronarn> and i think it's in part because 'you can't swap gear' isn't much to work with 13:31:56 <kilobyte> I'd stick with sticky, it's simple. 13:32:10 <dpeg> I explained why I think HP (body) and MP (magic=jewellery) regeneration fit. 13:32:20 <UbAh> devine weak spot/crit hit? 13:32:23 <Eronarn> yes, but just because you explained it doesn't mean that you're right 13:32:36 <dpeg> Eronarn: because you keep explaining it'S not good enough etc. 13:32:38 <Eronarn> i've read your explanations and still think the ability isn't what we should be using for ash 13:33:01 <Eronarn> it's just a generic buff for a god that otherwise has very cool/unique flavor 13:33:37 <Keskitalo> A's piety gain is quite fast atm. 13:33:42 <dpeg> yes 13:33:48 <kilobyte> Keskitalo: already fixed 13:33:49 <dpeg> anyway, I am open for better tactical benefits 13:34:00 <dpeg> but if they require more code then A got so far... I am not 13:34:06 <dpeg> simple == good 13:34:28 <Eronarn> okawaru is simple 13:34:39 <dpeg> kilobyte: would it be hard to have A show all portals in viewport (say LOS+1), whether visible or not? 13:35:04 <dpeg> Eronarn: there is a technical term for this kind of rhetorical maneuver. 13:35:04 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: Excellent 13:35:18 <UbAh> !tell neunon ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL.a ../contrib/install/lib/libSDLmain.a ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL_image.a 13:35:18 <Henzell> UbAh: OK, I'll let neunon know. 13:35:35 <UbAh> !tell neunon all are not in the contrib, I could point the file to another location but I dont even know where to get those files as they dont seem to be part of my standard SDL install 13:35:35 <Henzell> UbAh: OK, I'll let neunon know. 13:35:48 <UbAh> !tell neunon so I am both reporting something to include in the next file and asking where to get those libs 13:35:48 <Henzell> UbAh: OK, I'll let neunon know. 13:35:59 <Eronarn> dpeg: for when you don't acknowledge that simple catchphrases are always correct? that's called 'sensibility' 13:36:03 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:16 <Keskitalo> Playing this makes me feel there should be monsters that have these powers against the player. And fire IOODs from outside LOS. 13:36:20 <Eronarn> simple == good, unless it's not good, which happens (and does so often, actually) 13:36:23 <Zannick> next time be a little more concise so you don't flood him with messages 13:36:25 <Zannick> :P 13:36:25 <dpeg> I won't qualify what I mean by "simple == good". 13:36:28 <kilobyte> hmm, I have a quite radical idea for wrath. Instead of spawning curse skulls which duplicates other gods and goes against the theme of Ash being unable to actually act, what about messing with information and information only? That is, all non-mindless monsters would know your location, flock to you, and perhaps have some AI to avoid queuing in a corridor. 13:36:42 <kilobyte> Keskitalo: like that 13:37:02 <dpeg> kilobyte: sounds very good 13:37:05 <kilobyte> dpeg: for portals, it could be a yet another "passive detect foo" thingy, like items or monsters 13:37:06 <Eronarn> kilobyte: i hate hate hate the curse skull/toe wrath idea, and it should go regardless 13:37:15 <dpeg> "You feel you are being watched." 13:37:22 <Keskitalo> kilobyte: Yes, that sounds appropriate 13:37:26 <dpeg> kilobyte: I know, but it'd very useful in Abyss and sometimes elsewhere. 13:37:27 <Eronarn> that sounds promising but i'm not sure level-wide is right 13:37:34 <UbAh> zry zannick I was trying to break up what I was saying into pieces like paragraphs in a letter 13:38:10 <Zannick> no worries 13:38:11 <Eronarn> perhaps it could be a bit more subtle - like ash waking up sleeping enemies before you can stab them, or having enemies on the other side of a door be alert and know you're about to go through it 13:38:48 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:54 <rkd> or simply occassionally alert monsters in a certain radius around you be aware of your current position. 13:39:16 <Eronarn> yeah... if it's whole level this means monsters are leaving vaults and zooming right over to you 13:39:26 <Eronarn> which is actually advantageous much of the time 13:39:30 <UbAh> like a silent shout 13:39:48 <UbAh> maybe with a bit more range 13:40:17 <dpeg> kilobyte: he could also from time to time curse a random worn item 13:40:40 <dpeg> ...bringing a bit of that inflexibility to a time when you don't follow anymore 13:40:52 <UbAh> actually if your looking for a benifit and he is a play with knowledge kind of guy, go with the oposite as your buff 13:41:02 <UbAh> make hostiles forget about you 13:41:28 <dpeg> this would be a direct stealth boost 13:41:28 <rkd> sounds like zin 13:41:40 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:41:42 <Mu_> could you make the map outside of LOS look different than it actually is 13:41:55 <Mu_> like you mapped the level incorrectly 13:42:09 <UbAh> or forgot the level like map degrade 13:42:13 <dpeg> Mu_: players have been drawing labyrinths on grid paper! 13:42:17 <kilobyte> Mu_: that can be avoided by taking notes or by a bot 13:42:31 <UbAh> forget your stash 13:42:44 <UbAh> that would suck if you use the stash search 13:42:57 <kilobyte> UbAh: again, that's merely UI difficulty 13:42:59 <Keskitalo> Ahh yeah, I get clarity, I can use meph close up. 13:43:01 <kilobyte> which is no good 13:43:05 <rkd> [20:42] <@dpeg> Mu_: players have been drawing labyrinths on grid paper! <- is so retarded ;D 13:43:24 <dpeg> rkd: and then, someone wrote a bot so no one has to use grid paper anymore 13:43:36 <Mu_> i take it he already does div miscasts? :p 13:43:39 <UbAh> dpeg not a direct stealth boost but a random chance to forget, say even if you were in combat last round 13:43:42 <dpeg> And then we invented self-changing labs, which cause my untimely departure from SA. 13:44:09 <rkd> I don't see how anyone with an IQ over 10 would need more than 2 minutes to clear a lab 13:44:33 <UbAh> rkd, some of us like to play this game drunk 13:44:51 <rkd> I could play a lab on acid and still find the exit in 2 mins :/ 13:44:53 <UbAh> xom is fun for that 13:45:10 <dpeg> rkd: you should have seen the SA replies :) 13:45:28 <Keskitalo> Aww, Ash's curses are restrictin meeeee... 13:45:33 <UbAh> SA? 13:45:52 <Mu_> fun wrath effect: Ashenzari predicts the exact date and means of your demise, and explains them to you in detail. You are paralysed with fear! You pass out from fright! 13:45:53 <rkd> something awful I guess 13:45:53 <kilobyte> UbAh: SomethingAwful, a small step above /b/ 13:46:02 <dpeg> Mu_: ): 13:46:05 <dpeg> erm, sorry :) 13:46:10 <UbAh> only SA I know is Sience fiction atlanta 13:46:22 <UbAh> I have to work with those weasles, now cisco 13:46:32 -!- Vandal has quit [] 13:46:41 <Zannick> Mu_: Ashenzari says: "You are going to die right here, paralyzed with fear." You are paralyzed with fear! 13:46:50 <kilobyte> Zannick: <3 13:47:06 <dpeg> bonus points for the rhyme 13:47:06 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:47:17 <dpeg> Keskitalo: how? 13:47:20 <Zannick> hahaha, didn't even notice 13:47:45 <rkd> well ashenzari being able to "bind" you in your place, wouldnt be too weird 13:47:58 <UbAh> you could pull the old halucination effect like the bands have 13:48:12 <rkd> the mara effect 13:48:16 <UbAh> messing with informatioin 13:48:21 <rkd> of making monsters look like other monsters 13:48:26 <rkd> could be a wrath 13:48:26 <UbAh> yea 13:48:29 <UbAh> and items 13:48:42 <dpeg> so it seems there's no shortage for wrath effects... 13:48:47 <rkd> :)) 13:48:47 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:52 <UbAh> loose an ID item, like potion or scrool 13:48:56 <dpeg> ...but we still need something that works tactically in your favour 13:49:02 <Zannick> hm, for some reason i am thinking of scarecrow from the batman movies now 13:49:15 <rkd> well about the cursed gear bonus, I got nothing 13:49:50 <UbAh> informed strike (like sure blade) 13:49:58 <rkd> "fear" would be something but thats rarely a good thing 13:50:01 <Zannick> invert the enchantment on weapons? 13:50:09 <Zannick> eg -2 functions as +2 13:50:14 <UbAh> bind hostiles (slow paralisis) 13:50:25 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r0672df3c1137 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h): Reorganize monster resistance setting in monster_info. 13:50:27 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r8ad2baa3476e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h): Use mons_(class)_itemuse() in monster_info instead of duplicating code. 13:50:29 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r2b2597f336f1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h): Use mons_(class)_base_speed() in monster_info instead of duplicate code. 13:50:32 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r23016cc2bf5d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Add missing blank lines. 13:50:49 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * rf1f65bba0ffd 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Fix giving away mindless monsters (e.g. fake rakshasas) in monster_info. 13:51:06 <Keskitalo> dpeg: I have a cursed ring of TC which I'd like to swap for my newfound ring of regen 13:51:13 <dpeg> Keskitalo: yay! 13:51:21 <Keskitalo> although, in the long run the tc is better.. 13:51:39 <dpeg> Keskitalo: currently, the only cost of swapping are the items spent 13:51:57 <dpeg> I feel something could work with binding monsters. 13:52:09 <UbAh> yea, now I feel like I contributed 13:52:12 <UbAh> I am not a leach 13:52:18 <UbAh> as much 13:58:56 <UbAh> like he cursed the floor tile so its stuck to them 13:59:16 <UbAh> couldnt be cursed shoes cuz thats already posible 13:59:20 <dpeg> I am not sure if picking up items for id is ideal.... a little inconvenient. 14:00:06 <Eronarn> what about monsters having a chance to catch a curse if they strike you with the appropriate thing while you're bound (spells = jewellery, in melee = body armor), and some boost against enemies who have cursed equipment 14:00:47 <UbAh> does he already give you the ability to curse your own equipment? 14:02:37 <dpeg> UbAh: no, of course not :) 14:02:46 <dpeg> Eronarn: that's interesting 14:02:53 <dpeg> would still need something for the weapon slot 14:03:21 <UbAh> they hit you weapon, you hit them armor 14:03:21 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * rff2c15420c17 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Comment fix. 14:03:22 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r42129d8098d9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Fix more information leaks for misled monsters in monster_info. 14:03:29 <Mu_> you could come up with a bunch of curses and when you're hit a random one is inflicted on your attacker 14:03:33 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 14:04:15 -!- cw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:20 <UbAh> you could just do the code like the mommy death curse, prolly leaving out the potion change 14:04:33 <Eronarn> necro curses are definitely not right for ash 14:05:30 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:49 <UbAh> well if that wasn't sarcasm and you dont have a reliable way to get cursed items I like the curse hostiles items 14:05:58 <UbAh> course it has limited use 14:06:20 <dpeg> UbAh: no sarcasm 14:07:17 <UbAh> then you at least have some new cursed gear to pick from 14:07:36 <UbAh> does enchant still remove curse if your a worshiper? 14:08:40 <dpeg> UbAh: no 14:08:57 <UbAh> so you could do a combo of the ideas 14:09:06 <UbAh> curse hostiles items 14:09:13 <UbAh> for each cursed item slows them 14:09:14 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:34 <UbAh> or if thats to powerful slows movement speed 14:10:29 <dpeg> slowing somebody is even stronger than faster mp/hp gain, so people will object 14:10:45 <UbAh> or #cursed in x chance of being bound to tile for each movement 14:11:32 <UbAh> yea thats why I changed it to move speed as slow attack speed would be to much 14:11:45 <UbAh> but that chance thing is even less power 14:12:50 <UbAh> bound chance= (#cursed items)*(peity/x) per movement 14:13:06 <dpeg> Since A is about information, the most bound you are, the more unsure monsters could be about their loyalties. 14:13:46 <dpeg> Orc who just killed St Roka: "I didn't do that, Ashenzari made me do it!" 14:13:46 <UbAh> so not forgetting you but no longer being hostile 14:14:31 <UbAh> I always thought zin should have something like that 14:14:45 <UbAh> the more millitant form of reciting 14:14:54 <UbAh> you can beat them into following you 14:15:07 <UbAh> bonus with a flail/whip 14:15:07 <dpeg> yes, but with Ash everything is passive, of course 14:16:04 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:05 <UbAh> new background flagelent 14:16:17 <UbAh> like zins paladin :-P 14:17:16 <UbAh> not as fun as the minitor of trog with the shaved butt from earlier 14:17:36 <UbAh> I need an IRC spellchecker 14:17:59 <Eronarn> dpeg: ash could give false knowledge to enemies 14:18:11 <Eronarn> like, you take one step away, the monster swings at where you just were because it thought you stood still 14:18:20 <dpeg> Eronarn: this is what I just suggested 14:18:23 <dpeg> ah, I see 14:18:29 <dpeg> that goes more in the EV boost direction 14:18:42 <Eronarn> kind of, but not quite... i don't think a direct EV boost is what we want 14:18:45 <UbAh> actually no it is more like a one turn slow 14:18:50 <Eronarn> something that makes you harder to 'pin down', maybe 14:18:52 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:11 <UbAh> you steped away and he didnt follow because he tried to hit where you were 14:19:57 <UbAh> all this binding the hostile makes me thing ranged would be nice for him 14:20:03 <UbAh> throwing so you dont have to swap 14:20:09 <dpeg> There is a proposal for a general effect... depending on Dex. 14:20:21 <Eronarn> i don't think slowing your enemies is appropriate for ash 14:20:23 <UbAh> of the same thing 14:20:35 <dpeg> Eronarn: no, slowing seems odder than regen to ne 14:20:38 <dpeg> me 14:20:43 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:45 <UbAh> works both ways? 14:21:07 <UbAh> I think it would change the game alot you would always be retreating to get that extra space 14:22:14 <UbAh> I take it confusion was already shot down 14:23:42 <dpeg> yes confusion is too simple 14:23:53 <Eronarn> dpeg: what about, rather than a direct luck boost, a boost to unlikely actions? 14:24:06 <Eronarn> like, hitting very high EV creatures gets a boost, hitting very low EV creatures gets no boost at all 14:24:11 <dpeg> but all band-type monsters (this includes orcs, humans... many animals) could be misguided into thinking you're one of them 14:24:24 <dpeg> either not caring about you (allowing for the stab) 14:24:34 <dpeg> or fighting with you, until they realise and turn against you 14:24:48 <dpeg> anyway, need to finish this another time 14:24:49 <dpeg> food 14:24:52 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:25:54 <UbAh> I take it tell wont work for me? 14:26:16 <UbAh> I mean if I ask neunon to send me a tell back it wont work for me? 14:26:24 <UbAh> when I next log in 14:28:10 <Zannick> i will 14:28:37 <Zannick> when you speak, if you have messages, henzell will let you know 14:28:46 <UbAh> ok 14:28:57 <UbAh> so tell just is bound to your nickname? 14:29:04 <Zannick> yeah 14:29:06 <UbAh> how do you prevent imposters? 14:29:55 <Zannick> good question 14:34:00 <OG17> does anyone care if I move "witch's cat" to "felid" on the wiki? 14:35:31 <TGWi> what's ashenzari's wrath? 14:35:46 <OG17> or a new feedback page might be better 14:36:56 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:02 <upsy> TGWi: I don't think there is one yet 14:39:47 <TGWi> cool 14:39:56 <TGWi> if it's maprot I'm going to burn down ##crawl-dev 14:40:01 <monky> it appears felids share an unarmed title (Eviscerator) with a sbl title 14:40:14 <monky> (Eviscerator) 14:40:30 <TGWi> what he should do is nuke your EV 14:40:33 <TGWi> and tell monsters where you are 14:40:47 <casmith789> nuke your EV? 14:41:00 <casmith789> why? 14:41:37 <monky> monsters know how you'll dodge? 14:41:46 <monky> because ash tells them?? 14:41:55 <monky> would there be something hurting ac fighters too 14:42:04 <upsy> ??divination miscast 14:42:05 <Henzell> divination miscast[1/1]: 1: maprot/confuse 2: (d3 int loss / maprot) and confuse 3: (forget spell / maprot / 3-5 int loss) and confuse 14:42:30 <monky> div miscasts are ew 14:42:48 <upsy> wrath should include being misled 14:43:04 <monky> I hope you're joking 14:43:11 <sorear> ==upsy 14:43:49 <monky> it's flavorful and all, but I sort of like it as a unique mara thing 14:43:57 <monky> for what it's worth 14:44:14 <upsy> sorear: huh? 14:44:30 <sorear> I was about to say exactly the same thing 14:44:36 <upsy> ah 14:44:56 <upsy> monky: not fully serious, but it seems to fit 14:45:23 <upsy> since you get clarity from ash, wrath being anti-clarity makes sense 14:45:39 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:45 <upsy> either that or remove clarity from ash :p 14:48:05 <upsy> it doesn't water it down much, how many players are going to abandon ash in the first place 14:49:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:55:20 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:44 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r2f275c757ff8 10/crawl-ref/source/mislead.cc: Simplify unsuitable_misled_monster(), and add a few missing candidates. 14:59:11 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:34 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 15:06:35 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r78db70e8931f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Add formatting fix. 15:07:53 -!- ortoslon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:12:52 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:12 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:20 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:18 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:09 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:12 <CIA-40> 03raphael.langella * r25c9d8295882 10/crawl-ref/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add an option show_real_turns (default off) 15:33:24 -!- wergrew has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:18 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:48 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:44 <Eronarn> ash should give your gear recurse 15:57:50 <Eronarn> the gift that keeps on giving 16:00:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:21 <CIA-40> 03raphael.langella * r9d363587c114 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc it_use3.cc): auto-wield miscellaneous items on evoke 16:04:45 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:27 <sorear> +1 16:16:35 -!- Pseudonut has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:49 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:21 -!- UbAh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:17 -!- cw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:46 -!- wergrew has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:30 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r3b7b6bf0d38b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc player.cc species.cc species.h): Move conversion of player to monster species to its own function. 16:47:48 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r95bc405be7fe 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Get draconian player illusion species in monster_info as in mon-util.cc. 16:53:26 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r0bfd242d05de 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Remove unnecessary extra spacing from draconian descriptions. 16:53:43 <Eronarn> another ash thought: a semi-lifesaving ability 16:54:06 <casmith789> semi-lifesaving? 16:54:36 <Eronarn> take an action, figure out its consequences, if it ended poorly for you then you can get a mulligan on it 16:55:00 <Eronarn> but, this doesn't apply if that action was the one that killed you - seers may be able to see their death coming, but they can't avoid it! 16:55:02 <cw_> semi-lifesaving = you turn undead instead of dying? :p 16:55:29 <Zannick> your race is changed to vampire or mummy? 16:55:36 <Zannick> or ghoul? 16:55:38 <casmith789> that seems really complex :p 16:55:51 <Zannick> oh, and that would make winning those characters too easy :P 16:56:03 <Eronarn> Zannick: depends how often it kicks in 16:56:26 <Zannick> i'm still tempted to make a shapeshifter race 16:56:40 <Eronarn> tempt yourself into fixing one of our existing broken races before adding a new one 16:56:41 <Zannick> Eronarn: on the other hand, you don't have to change the original race 16:56:48 <Zannick> hahaha :) 16:57:16 <casmith789> broken = too powerful or too boring? 16:57:48 <Eronarn> casmith789: broken = too powerful; many broken things are also too boring, because power = less need for choices = less interesting 16:58:15 <Eronarn> (low power => using it isn't a viable choice => also boring) 17:00:28 <Zannick> !lg * won cv>=0.7 s=race 17:00:28 <Sequell> 597 games for * (won cv>=0.7): 96x Spriggan, 75x Demonspawn, 59x Merfolk, 45x Deep Dwarf, 33x Sludge Elf, 33x Halfling, 33x Deep Elf, 32x High Elf, 24x Kobold, 22x Naga, 21x Ghoul, 14x Mountain Dwarf, 13x Kenku, 11x Troll, 11x Ogre, 11x Human, 10x Hill Orc, 9x Demigod, 9x Vampire, 7x Mummy, 7x Centaur, 5x Minotaur, 4x Black Draconian, 3x Grey Draconian, 2x Yellow Draconian, 2x Purple Draconian, 2x... 17:00:40 <Zannick> !lg * won cv>=0.7 s=-race 17:00:40 <Sequell> 597 games for * (won cv>=0.7): 1x Green Draconian, 1x Mottled Draconian, 1x White Draconian, 1x Red Draconian, 2x Felid, 2x Yellow Draconian, 2x Purple Draconian, 3x Grey Draconian, 4x Black Draconian, 5x Minotaur, 7x Centaur, 7x Mummy, 9x Vampire, 9x Demigod, 10x Hill Orc, 11x Human, 11x Troll, 11x Ogre, 13x Kenku, 14x Mountain Dwarf, 21x Ghoul, 22x Naga, 24x Kobold, 32x High Elf, 33x Halfling, 3... 17:02:12 <Zannick> there are a lot of factors here besides just race 17:03:14 <Zannick> spriggans are probably up in comparison to everything else because they're really good at nonmelee and melee got worse with the ac nerf 17:03:37 <Zannick> but i agree some races need improvement and balance 17:09:41 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:10:24 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:31 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 17:11:36 <Wensley> everyone here, please not that anytime TGWi comes or goes I am obliged to make a disparaging remark about felids. this is just how it has to be 17:15:04 <Zannick> :< 17:15:28 <Eronarn> i think it says a lot that spriggans are more than an order of magnitude more popular than several races :P 17:16:21 <upsy> !lg * won cv>=0.7 s=-crace 17:16:21 <Sequell> 597 games for * (won cv>=0.7): 2x Felid, 5x Minotaur, 7x Mummy, 7x Centaur, 9x Demigod, 9x Vampire, 10x Hill Orc, 11x Ogre, 11x Troll, 11x Human, 13x Kenku, 14x Mountain Dwarf, 15x Draconian, 21x Ghoul, 22x Naga, 24x Kobold, 32x High Elf, 33x Deep Elf, 33x Halfling, 33x Sludge Elf, 45x Deep Dwarf, 59x Merfolk, 75x Demonspawn, 96x Spriggan 17:21:22 <Zannick> !lg * cv=0.7 s=crace / won 17:21:22 <Sequell> 436/89922 games for * (cv=0.7): 22/15102x Deep Elf [0.15%], 36/10807x Demonspawn [0.33%], 78/7679x Spriggan [1.02%], 51/5508x Merfolk [0.93%], 28/4749x High Elf [0.59%], 11/4389x Mountain Dwarf [0.25%], 26/3320x Sludge Elf [0.78%], 5/3116x Hill Orc [0.16%], 7/3066x Troll [0.23%], 9/2951x Kenku [0.30%], 16/2940x Naga [0.54%], 6/2855x Vampire [0.21%], 15/2765x Kobold [0.54%], 20/2743x Ghoul [0.73%],... 17:27:04 <Wensley> eronarn: I don't think it means spriggans are OP so much as it means that a lot of other races are just boring 17:28:08 <OG17> spriggans are amazingly overpowered 17:28:23 <OG17> would probably be a lot better if nutrition meant something though 17:28:35 <Zannick> the speed is highly highly useful 17:28:52 <casmith789> centaurs are one of the most powerful races but because of the fact they're less fun not many people play them 17:29:18 <OG17> how are centaurs one of the most powerful races 17:35:10 <Danei> Being able to outrun most things is pretty powerful. 17:36:53 <casmith789> deep dwarf, spriggan, then centaur? maybe troll 17:37:22 <Zannick> dd are tricky to use right, though they are powerful 17:38:09 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 17:40:21 <OG17> centaurs' only positive apts are for ranged weapons, they're big and have bad defenses, they have rare armor, and they're hungry 17:40:24 <OG17> this is silly 17:43:35 <Wensley> spriggans will have a tougher time once hive isn't a branch anymore 17:44:49 <Wensley> they're only overpowered in the sense that they have superperfect apts for being enchanter stabbers 17:46:49 <Eronarn> the insane EV/speed doesn't hurt 17:46:51 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:06 <UbAh> neunon hasnt come in yet? 17:47:24 <Zannick> !seen neunon 17:47:24 <Henzell> I last saw neunon at Thu Oct 7 10:01:09 2010 UTC (4d 12h 46m 15s ago) joining the channel. 17:47:40 <UbAh> :..( 17:48:04 <UbAh> thx zannick I am learning all kinds of irc commands 17:48:10 <UbAh> or bot commands 17:48:20 <Zannick> there are a lot 17:48:40 <UbAh> I dont go on irc much 17:48:58 <UbAh> at work I tend to know what I know and I only need it for my play stuff 17:49:05 <Zannick> i see 17:49:11 <UbAh> or to sum it up servers are easier than desktop 17:49:13 <Wensley> eronarn: insane speed and ev are fine, there are other tradeoffs that make them an interesting race 17:49:46 <OG17> you could message henzell !help if you want to look through everything 17:49:53 <Zannick> it makes it an easy choice what to do with corpses when you worship a god that likes sacrifice 17:50:13 <UbAh> I like thr trany's 17:51:35 <UbAh> if I ever get the new code working I wanna see how a killer stack of pots goes for Jiv 17:52:14 <UbAh> thinking new demon span mutations and jiv ones 17:52:19 <UbAh> spawn* 17:52:30 <UbAh> sry on no sleep for 24 hours cuz I am sick 17:52:43 <OG17> spriggan ev makes them one of the most survivable races toe-to-toe starting out, which at least seems a little odd 17:53:38 <Wensley> UbAh: what, are you a contributor now? :P ever get your version to compile? 17:53:42 <Eronarn> yeah, i wonder if it'd work better if they got a dex bonus every level or something 17:53:48 <Eronarn> but didn't have as much EV early on 17:53:52 <Eronarn> i've lways thought that was weird 17:53:57 <UbAh> Wensley: haha no but I know the problem 17:54:12 <UbAh> waiting on neunon to talk about it 17:54:31 <monky> have you done a !tell yet 17:54:32 <Zannick> Wensley: he's having trouble compiling tiles on his system 17:54:38 <UbAh> ended up trying it on fedora, since I figured thats a big enough distro to have been tested 17:54:46 <UbAh> yea monky 17:55:14 <UbAh> told him but he is off partying with those chicks who dig guys who make make files 17:55:26 <Zannick> hahaha 17:55:32 <Wensley> UbAh: you mean all the chicks, everywhere 17:55:44 <Wensley> linux groupies 17:56:08 <UbAh> Wensley: its missing some files in the deps tar ball and i dont know where to find them its not part of the standard SDL packages 17:57:16 <UbAh> Wensley: i686-redhat-linux-g++: ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL.a: No such file or directory 17:57:18 <UbAh> i686-redhat-linux-g++: ../contrib/install/lib/libSDLmain.a: No such file or directory 17:57:20 <UbAh> i686-redhat-linux-g++: ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL_image.a: No such file or directory 17:57:41 <UbAh> yea my GF definately doesnt dig me for the linux stuff 17:57:44 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:57:45 <Wensley> weird, although I am not a linux wizard so I am not familiar with slackware 17:57:59 <UbAh> I moved to fedora 17:58:06 <UbAh> redhat 17:58:10 <Wensley> and you're still getting errors? 17:58:14 <Wensley> that's really weird 17:58:16 <UbAh> I get the same error on both 17:58:52 <UbAh> I think when I talk to neunon we can work it out, and unless there is a licence issue get those files in the deps tar ball 17:59:22 <UbAh> its just those files which form what I read on SDL site are staic builds that they dont supply 17:59:29 <UbAh> static* 18:00:17 <UbAh> and actually Wensley I did contribute to the discussion about the div god today while I was waiting :-) 18:00:44 <Wensley> awesome, what were people discussing? 18:02:03 <UbAh> new advantages and wrath 18:03:12 <UbAh> DSG(?) shot down a bunch of ideas and was unsatisfied at the begining 18:04:07 <monky> DSG? 18:04:10 <UbAh> lots of ideas got thrown out but he liked making items on attackers cursed, or binding/sticking them to the tile they are on (missed movement) 18:04:17 <UbAh> d something or other 18:04:37 <monky> dpeg? 18:04:49 <UbAh> brain is fried from sinus infection and no sleep, and I am horrid with names at the best of times 18:05:05 <UbAh> sure dpeg sounds familure 18:05:22 <Wensley> there are a lot of d names in this channel, it's okay 18:05:23 <UbAh> as long as it fits he would be running the discussion about that god 18:05:55 <UbAh> I restarted my box to upgrade the kernal image so I lost my history in window 18:08:18 <UbAh> this IRC client I am running is evil, no spell checker. It expects me to know how to spell what i am trying to say :-( 18:08:55 <Wensley> what are you using? 18:09:02 <UbAh> chatzilla 18:09:23 <UbAh> I just randomly grabed a IRC package from the repository 18:09:30 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:40 <Zannick> not a lot of irc clients have spellchecking 18:10:52 <UbAh> evil 18:10:53 <Zannick> i believe pidgin will do the red squiggly if you want it to 18:11:00 <Wensley> UbAh: my version of chatzilla has spellchecking, not sure why yours doesn't 18:11:01 <TGWi> pidgin has spellchecking 18:11:11 <TGWi> don't use pidgin though, it's a terrible IRC client 18:11:16 <UbAh> I grew up in the 90's using spellcheck on dos thats how bad it is not to have it for me 18:11:18 <Zannick> it is, yes. 18:11:19 * TGWi uses pidgin 18:11:29 <UbAh> I use pidgen at work 18:11:32 * Zannick uses irssi 18:11:39 <UbAh> works on solaris 8 18:11:47 <UbAh> and sol 10 and windows 18:12:00 <UbAh> all the desktops I find myself on at work 18:12:35 <monky> I use irssi 18:57:58 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r89ac9cc44240 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Indent unused monster enum value. 18:58:01 <UbAh> ok I am out 18:59:05 -!- UbAh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:39 <due> hi 19:12:16 <Wensley> yo due 19:12:30 <Mu_> duey baby 19:13:47 <due> hii 19:17:01 <Mu_> due i had an idea for a gimmick for ozocubu's wizlab, do you have time these days to do fancy lua for me if i made the vault 19:17:07 <due> sure 19:17:35 <Mu_> how easy would it be to turn monsters into features and back again 19:18:06 <due> um 19:18:09 <due> doable 19:18:18 <due> the back again may be problematic 19:18:21 <Mu_> cool 19:18:26 <due> if it's one specific feature, that's fine 19:18:40 <Mu_> gargoyles could have this as a gimmick for real 19:18:57 <Zannick> that would be a really neat monster 19:20:19 <Mu_> i'll make a vault and email you tomorrow some time 19:20:59 -!- MadCoyote has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:36 <due> Gargoyles are doable actually 19:21:36 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:23:38 <Eronarn> stalking statues 19:23:51 <Eronarn> like a wandering mushroom, but it turns into a mundane statue 19:24:29 <due> Eronarn: feature mimics <3 19:24:40 <due> I'd seriously consider implementing statue mimics like that. 19:24:41 -!- FunkyGnoll has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24:48 <Eronarn> do feature mimics move..? 19:25:25 <due> Yes. 19:25:29 <due> You get chased by doors. 19:26:22 <Eronarn> that's amazing 19:26:23 <Wensley> being chased by staircases will be hard to portray when we render crawl in the Crysis engine 19:26:23 <TGWi> is their attack to smash your fingers? 19:27:02 <Eronarn> oh, you know what we could do? a monster that possesses statues 19:27:09 <Eronarn> and when you kill the statue, it turns back into a normal one 19:27:23 <Eronarn> but the monster itself isn't dead, just driven off for now 19:27:24 <due> TGWi: yes 19:27:29 <Wensley> Eronarn: I remember reading a proposal somewhere for a tiny monster that would possess corpses 19:27:40 <TGWi> do stair mimics stub your toes? 19:27:45 <TGWi> and/or push you down them? 19:28:33 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r87f0dd4a7d72 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Clean up Tiamat's color-changing routine. 19:30:43 <Eronarn> poltergeist that makes dancing weapons, throws ammo at you, etc. :3 19:30:45 <Wensley> why is passwall a tmut spell? seems more like a tloc spell 19:31:06 <due> Wensley: ... because you walk through the wall. 19:31:17 <Wensley> what are you transmuting? 19:31:26 <due> Yourself and the wall? 19:31:37 <Wensley> seems tenuous 19:32:13 <Eronarn> Wensley: it's not like a portal 19:32:21 <Eronarn> you merge with the wall, then un-merge somewhere else 19:33:57 <Wensley> new tmut spell: wall form 19:34:17 <due> I'd actually prefer passwall was a short-lasting status effect that allowed you to walk through walls. 19:35:09 <Wensley> due: one of my friends had the idea to allow the spell to give you so many "charges" based on the power of the spell, and walking through a single rock tile cost 1 charge, a stone tile, 2 charges, and so on 19:35:20 <due> Wensley: Well, basically the same thing 19:35:46 <Wensley> well actually his idea was to simply teleport to the other side of the wall, deducting as many charges as necessary 19:35:55 <due> That's basically what it does. 19:36:17 <Wensley> now that's what it does, but this would be a status effect and better for hit and run attacks 19:36:46 <Eronarn> the problem with allowing hit and run attacks is that it allows hit and run attacks 19:37:21 <Wensley> eh, I sort of like the idea, but I think with ash the current passwall is powerful enough 19:38:17 <Wensley> does the newest downloadable 0.8 build include ash? CDO is so slow 19:38:23 <due> Not sure. 19:38:29 <due> We're not using squarelos any more are we? 19:38:43 <Wensley> I thought that was disabled by accident 19:39:46 <due> Deja vu. 19:49:55 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r7f3d88f88994 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-util.cc): Unify monster_info's draco_subspecies() with mon-util.cc's. 19:52:30 <due> STOP IT DOLOROUS YOU ARE BREAKING THIGNS 19:54:06 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * rb1b5e6fd9e6f 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Add missing newline after draconian description. 19:54:14 <due> STOP IT ARGHH 20:00:11 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r2ad9cfc2585c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Make the descriptions for all types of base draconians match. 20:00:11 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * raa96fef461c8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Add missing description for grey draconians, based on the others. 20:06:20 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:04 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * rcd99fc5ce0d5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix Mantis 2706: Add a description for kraken connectors. 20:33:30 <CIA-40> 03N78291 * r814528022254 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Draconian improvement 20:33:33 <CIA-40> 03due * r6607a9ce9caf 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix whitespace. 20:33:36 <CIA-40> 03thevalrus * ree38deca6477 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Added Xom effect: coloured smoke trail behind player. 20:42:06 <TGWi> whoo, drac patch 20:42:11 <due> yes 20:43:13 <TGWi> due: I like passwall as a status effect, so you can use it at angles 20:43:55 <TGWi> you would have to handle a lot of ugly stuff though, like passwall expiring in walls 20:44:02 <due> you die 20:44:35 <TGWi> passwall used to do that, it wasn't great 20:45:28 <due> FeBe versus Kobold room with Ctrl+h, FeBe wins. 20:46:49 <Eronarn> TGWi: replace passwall with rock worm form :D 20:47:39 <due> I don't know that vault 20:48:50 <TGWi> is there a schedule for cdo updates? 20:49:12 <TGWi> or is it just "while I'm not looking, and also immediately before something really cool is added" 20:49:18 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:22 <due> TGWi: exactly 20:49:27 <TGWi> cool 20:58:09 <OG17> "passwall at angles" would also work if you could target beams out of LOS. I like how you need to commit to current passwall 20:58:24 <OG17> instead of jumping around like a rock worm 20:59:34 <valrus> does that CIA message mean I can stop holding onto the branch I made for that patch? 20:59:47 <due> valrus: yes, just check to make sure I applied it properly 21:00:45 <valrus> what does that entail? re-pull and just make sure the stuff is in the right place? 21:00:49 <due> yup 21:01:03 <valrus> ok. thanks :) 21:01:17 <valrus> pretty excited about this 21:01:30 <TGWi> valrus: grats 21:01:35 <valrus> thx :D 21:01:46 <TGWi> also sorry but nobody plays xom 21:02:10 <valrus> that's ok, it was just kind of to get used to the codebase and start with something easy 21:02:18 <valrus> also my last win was xom 21:02:31 <Zannick> !won * god=xom cv>=0.7 21:02:32 <Sequell> * (god=xom cv>=0.7) has won 5 times in 1960 games (0.26%): 1xDSCK 1xDSNe 1xKoCK 1xMfAs 1xTrMo 21:02:37 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:22 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 21:26:37 <Wensley> !lg * s=god 21:26:37 <Sequell> 821453 games for *: 596611x , 45675x Trog, 26517x Makhleb, 23787x Okawaru, 21034x The Shining One, 18481x Xom, 17632x Sif Muna, 12830x Yredelemnul, 10955x Lugonu, 10369x Vehumet, 9183x Beogh, 8029x Elyvilon, 5665x Kikubaaqudgha, 5495x Nemelex Xobeh, 5159x Zin, 2346x Cheibriados, 1238x Fedhas, 362x Jiyva, 72x Feawn, 13x Ashenzari 21:26:50 <Wensley> still the fifth most-played god, though 21:27:09 <Wensley> even if xom isn't the best for winning, he's still ultra fun 21:27:17 <Wensley> completely unlike makhleb or oka 21:32:16 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:40 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:07 <valrus> how can I pull and just squash any changes I made? 21:33:18 <valrus> without having to bother with merging 21:33:48 <Zannick> git rebase with some args, probably 21:35:31 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:38 <CIA-40> 03N78291 * rb45f3dca40ce 10/crawl-ref/source/ (22 files in 2 dirs): Properly apply N78291's Draconian patch. 21:58:42 <elly> valrus: you want to lose your changes altogether? 21:59:03 <valrus> as I understand it, my patch was applied 21:59:12 <valrus> and so I'd just like to get the current master 22:02:09 <elly> just git pull 22:02:27 <valrus> sez I have unmerged files? 22:02:42 <valrus> wait this is in master, not the branch where I merged my patch 22:07:38 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 22:08:00 <sorear> git checkout master; git rebase --hard origin/master 22:08:14 <sorear> but make sure you actually want to "quit branch without saving" 22:09:11 <valrus> could I pull that into my master branch but keep the local one with my patch in? 22:09:12 <sorear> due: you know you can reply to dolorous' commits on crd and he'll usually understand? 22:09:19 <valrus> I hope I'm even making sense 22:09:22 <sorear> yes 22:09:34 <valrus> ok 22:14:10 <valrus> the rebase command doesn't seem to be right? 22:14:28 <valrus> git spits out the usage 22:14:46 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r6d9b7ee99e6f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc xom.cc): Add minor cosmetic fixes. 22:14:48 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r53b005bb2638 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix compilation. 22:14:48 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r9b63a9bc55d4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Fix whitespace. 22:14:50 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r1d2e39d016bd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.cc it_use3.cc it_use3.h): Rename _disc_of_storms() to disc_of_storms(). 22:56:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:34 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:56 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22:21 <sorear> now. as I was saying before my network connection died an hour ago 23:22:27 <sorear> oh valrus left 23:52:30 -!- Pseudonut has joined ##crawl-dev