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00:00:52 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2402-gf18100d (33)
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00:20:22 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2402-gf18100d
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00:39:56 <ussdefiant_> umm, what's that Warwalrus thing in the channel topic?
00:40:55 <Cheibriados> Error calling monster-trunk: 
00:40:55 <Nomi> %??pandemonium lord spells:metal_splinters
00:52:44 <ussdefiant_> umm, who would i talk to if i have a problem connecting to FooTV?
01:05:00 <elliptic> what sort of problem?
01:05:15 <elliptic> you should just be able to telnet to termcast.develz.org
01:07:35 <ussdefiant_> SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu7 that pops up, then nothing happens
01:07:49 <ussdefiant_> hitting enter closes the Putty session
01:07:57 <ussdefiant_> and yes, i'm using Telnet, not SSH
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01:19:25 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r5b7b48453294 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Whitespace fixes.
01:19:35 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r3a0c5f649d5d 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Fix "monster" crashes more generally.
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01:22:31 <|amethyst> @??pandemonum lord spells:metal_splinters
01:22:31 <Gretell> unknown monster: "pandemonum lord"
01:22:34 <|amethyst> @??pandemonium lord spells:metal_splinters
01:22:59 <|amethyst> hrm
01:23:18 <Cheibriados> pandemonium lord (06&) | Spd: 10-19 | Int: high | HD: 12 | HP: 110-245 | AC/EV: 14/14 | Dam: 44 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire++, 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6989 | Sp: (random).

01:23:18 <|amethyst> %??pandemonium lord spells:metal_splinters
01:23:21 <|amethyst> doh
01:23:27 <|amethyst> ok, seems to work now
01:23:47 <|amethyst> I mean, spells: doesn't, but no crash
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03:19:54 <phunktion> Hi, is there any documentation on setting up webtiles? I'm about 400+ms away from the one running on develz.org so lag is a bit of a killer. I love playing on my phone and want to set something up a  bit closer to home
03:20:14 <phunktion> currently cloning the repository and will checkout stable
03:23:50 <kilobyte> edlothiol claims the DGL mode can work locally now, but I never looked how.
03:24:49 <alefury> phunktion: there is also an android port of local tiles
03:24:49 <Henzell> alefury: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
03:24:53 <alefury> !messages
03:24:54 <Henzell> (1/1) HangedMan said (8h 4m 59s ago): ??secrets
03:24:54 <kilobyte> so my way is: edit webserver/config.py to set dgl_mode = False, build Crawl with WEBTILES=y, and start webserver/server.py
03:25:07 <alefury> ??secrets
03:25:07 <Henzell> secrets[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:secrets
03:25:21 <phunktion> thanks all, i'll try kilobyte's method to start with
03:25:25 <kilobyte> you need a recent version of python-tornado to do so
03:25:44 <phunktion> also, a local android tiles port sounds amazing, but I haven't come across such a thing?
03:26:50 <phunktion> kilobyte: should be ok, i'm just messing around on a test VM colocated locally
03:27:55 <Cheibriados> CTRL-f produces "Oh dear. There seems to be a bug..." (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5822) by JasonMel
03:28:13 <kilobyte> I don't know how recent is needed, at least that shipped with Debian wheezy (testing) or unstable works
03:28:48 <alefury> phunktion: theres a thread about it on the tavern: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4363
03:29:28 <phunktion> thanks alefury! :)
03:36:03 <Zaba> heh, I noticed error_message_to_player only now.  And apparently it's only used in one place? Maybe a more descriptive message would be more appropriate there?
03:36:30 <phunktion> well, the android version appears to work very nicely, using a sony xperia mini pro with physical keyboard. tiles are a little small but its very playable
03:36:43 <phunktion> will see how i go with the webtiles setup :)
03:43:33 <alefury> phunktion: afaik it hasnt been properly announced because it could use some more testing and polish. I think the guy who made it is currently on his honeymoon or otherwise busy.
03:43:37 <alefury> !seen frogbotherer
03:43:38 <Henzell> I last saw frogbotherer at Fri Jun 22 21:24:17 2012 UTC (11h 19m 20s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the connection.
03:43:49 <alefury> hm, looks like hes back at least
03:46:15 <phunktion> that's fair enough, i appreciate any effort on that front!
03:47:07 <alefury> if you find bugs or have suggestions (or patches :P ) frogbotherer would probably be happy to hear about them
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03:48:18 <alefury> hm, patches might be hard without the source i guess
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04:32:17 <phunktion> hmm, i'm seeing some errors compiling master
04:32:27 <phunktion> libunix.cc: In function 'int getchk()': libunix.cc:245: error: 'get_wch' was not declared in this scope
04:35:25 <phunktion> any ideas? googling turns up someone else who had the same errors on ubuntu 64bit but no other info
04:37:56 <edlothiol> try installing libncursesw5-dev
04:45:15 <phunktion> aha. I thought i'd covered the dependencies off
04:45:18 <phunktion> my bad, sorry!
04:46:26 <edlothiol> no problem ;)
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04:55:41 <BlastHardcheese> there seems to be some kind of bug in trunk with gold pieces showing up twice on the ctrl-x and ctrl-f screens
04:56:24 <BlastHardcheese> if it's not already known
05:00:01 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2404-g5b7b484
05:00:31 <kilobyte> because of that BSD + fdatasync() bug (gcc-4.7 considers it fatal), I'm really pondering adding a configure step
05:01:11 <kilobyte> that'd let us go wild with compile checks and catch missing dependencies with user-friendly error messages
05:01:36 <kilobyte> (right now adding compile checks greatly slows down every single invocation of make)
05:02:44 <alefury> regarding directional shouts: im thinking of adding "from @direction@" to all the unseen shouts in shout.txt, then replace that with north, northwest, etc in do_mon_str_replacements (and replace it with "nearby" for invisible monsters whose cell you can see). Is that the right idea, or should I do it differently?
05:03:09 <kilobyte> BlastHardcheese: yeah, I can reproduce
05:04:45 <kilobyte> alefury: in the long term, I'm thinking about assigning every message its coordinates.  That'd be a lot of work, but almost nothing when done together with changing prints for translations.
05:05:10 <kilobyte> reason: directional sound
05:05:31 <kilobyte> with those directional shouts you're talking about, there'd be no information leak
05:05:49 <alefury> yes, we talked about that a while ago
05:06:31 <kilobyte> current sound support is buggier than Bill Gates' mutt, replacing it with SDL_sound is tempting for local tiles
05:06:51 <alefury> i dont know if its already possible to add a direction to all sound messages, and shouts are the most important ones
05:06:55 <kilobyte> not sure what for console: it'd be silly to special case local vs remote games
05:07:15 <kilobyte> "You hear a clang.", etc
05:07:22 <phunktion> hmm, i appear to have compiled trunk somehow, oops
05:07:34 <alefury> when do you ever her a clang?
05:08:12 <alefury> stuff other than the player doesnt usually make a lot of noise, right? theres projected noise, shouts, monsters stepping on alarm traps.
05:08:14 <kilobyte> when some BSD person whines about the license of gcc, duh :p
05:08:51 <alefury> phunktion: yes, master is trunk. its better anyway :)
05:09:15 <phunktion> doesn't seem to have the webtiles interface i was expecting is all
05:09:24 <Cheibriados> Enslaved Frederick hurts allies with new IMB (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5823) by absolutego
05:09:59 <alefury> oh, i have no idea if webtiles works with current trunk. youd have to ask edlothiol. he may be able to give some pointers about how to get webtiles to work too (he wrote it).
05:10:11 <edlothiol> phunktion: it does, read source/webserver/README
05:10:20 <phunktion> it's working
05:10:28 <phunktion> just doesn't seem to have the multi-user stuff?
05:10:54 <kilobyte> phunktion: wait, so you needed it for multi-user not for private play?
05:11:08 <edlothiol> phunktion: set dgl_mode=True in the config.py
05:11:33 <phunktion> kilobyte: it's for me, but i wouldn't mind sending some friends towards it
05:11:38 <phunktion> thanks edlothiol
05:11:40 <alefury> kilobyte: so should i go ahead with trying to implement directional shouts? and should i do it in the way I described?
05:12:07 <edlothiol> phunktion: still read the README
05:12:16 <kilobyte> alefury: I guess, it probably could be better to do it consistently for all out of LOS messages
05:12:24 <phunktion> edlothiol: just going through it now
05:12:55 <alefury> im not familiar with the crawl code, is there currently a way to do that?
05:13:15 <kilobyte> almost all (or perhaps even all) show up when grepping for "You hear"
05:13:33 <alefury> it would certainly be better, but from what ive seen it would require a lot of refactoring, because different messages are handled by different functions.
05:13:46 <kilobyte> (with many false positives, like scrolls of uselessness, etc)
05:13:55 <phunktion> ah, that's a bit better, just need to sort out the generation of rc files i think
05:14:08 <kilobyte> I mean, a common function to return the direction
05:14:22 <alefury> ah, that makes sense
05:14:24 <kilobyte> and also, there needs to be some notion of distance as well
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05:15:06 <alefury> id use nearby and give no direction for seen cells with invisible noise sources, and no distance estimate otherwise. could make it more complex of course.
05:17:58 <kilobyte> for shouts this makes sense as they happen close enough.  For stuff far away, not really.
05:18:10 <alefury> what noise happens far away?
05:18:36 <alefury> the only remotely frequent case i can think of is projected noise, and for that you know where it happened
05:19:35 <Cheibriados> On Yred's allies and scrolls of immolation/holy word (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5824) by absolutego
05:19:35 <alefury> "from the northwest" --> "from the far northwest" would be one way to give distance information
05:20:01 <kilobyte> explosions for example (especially hellfire)
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05:20:44 <alefury> oh, i guess corruption can cause a lot of out of los noise
05:22:14 <alefury> another way would be to give information about how loud the sound is instead of distance, but that would be harder. for direction coordinates are needed anyway, for loudness loudness is needed, which is currently not usually available to the message handlers I think.
05:22:37 <alefury> it would make a bit more sense, though
05:25:27 <alefury> where should i put the direction function?
05:26:01 <kilobyte> looks like many messages already go through noisy()
05:26:40 <alefury> shouts dont seem to for some reason, its weird
05:27:09 <alefury> noisy gets called in the end, but without the message
05:27:33 <alefury> see shout.cc:271
05:28:44 <alefury> it looks to me like you always get the message, even if you cant actually hear the shout (which makes sense for visual "shouts")
05:30:57 <kilobyte> yeah
05:31:25 <kilobyte> it's an inconsistent mess, in general
05:31:32 <kilobyte> (not a surprising thing :p)
05:33:49 <alefury> i guess i could try to clean it up. Get the message, print it via noisy() if its audible, always print it if its not.
05:35:05 <alefury> also, if this happens to happen, is the target 0.11 or 0.12?
05:36:00 <alefury> the gameplay effects seem minor to me, usually you can infer where the sound came from anyway
05:36:34 <alefury> but it seems hard to properly test, so there may be bugs :/
05:41:26 <kilobyte> doesn't seem like something risky to me
05:44:37 <alefury> so, open questions: 1. distance or loudness in messages? loudness might be tricky. 2. where does the direction function go? shout.cc? misc.cc?
05:46:24 <alefury> currently the message passed to noisy is always exactly the one that went in. handling direction and distance/loudness there would make it easy to unify, but im not sure adding another place where messages get changed would be good.
05:46:48 <alefury> s/passed to/printed by/
05:48:38 <kilobyte> distance is safer
05:53:00 <alefury> also loudness could get annoying i think. it might vary a lot even between closeby sources, so with direction and loudness information "you hear a shout x6" could easily turn into 6 different messages.
05:54:09 <CIA-50> 03edlothiol * r9f5738fe2e80 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add an example user initialization script for webtiles.
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05:56:31 <kilobyte> yay weapon str/dex weighting.  There are two functions doing the same, and they give the same answer ~ 1/3 of the time.
05:57:16 <kilobyte> bardiche: 5 vs 8, blowgun: 5 vs 0, bow: 7 vs 2, quarterstaff: 3 vs 7, sling: 5 vs 1
06:00:21 <alefury> cool :)
06:00:42 <edlothiol> use both and take the average
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06:01:32 <kilobyte> looking at the uses, it appears all melee uses the first number, ranged the second
06:01:38 <kilobyte> http://sprunge.us/YLYS
06:03:00 <alefury> its funny how even new weapons (staff) have different entries in both of these
06:04:33 <alefury> kilobyte: should I handle direction message replacement in noisy() to ensure consistency, or do it in the different functions that usually replace messages?
06:04:59 <alefury> probably better to do it in the message replacement functions
06:05:15 <Cheibriados> weapon str/dex weight discrepancy (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5825) by KiloByte
06:06:04 <kilobyte> as long as all use a single way to do the heavy lifting, doesn't seem to matter much
06:07:49 <alefury> okay, ill keep the message replacements to functions that are actually meant to do it then
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07:08:51 <alefury> whats a good distance to start calling "far"?
07:08:55 <alefury> 30?
07:11:45 <HangedMan> ??portal distance
07:11:49 <Henzell> portal distance[1/1]: Portal distance by adjective: a long way away, >30; distant, >15; nearby, >7.
07:12:11 <HangedMan> is "far" closer or further away then "distant"
07:13:22 <alefury> this is regarding direction messages for sound ("you hear a shout from the northwest")
07:13:33 <alefury> the direction is only given if you cant see the source
07:13:48 <alefury> and i dont want to make the scale very fine
07:13:56 <alefury> i could use 20 i guess
07:14:00 <HangedMan> just thinking of keeping things consistent
07:14:09 <ChrisOelmueller> yay inconsistent breakp--
07:14:25 <alefury> :)
07:14:43 <ChrisOelmueller> using the same adjectives as portals do seems fine
07:14:52 <ChrisOelmueller> that might of might not include changing theirs
07:15:19 <alefury> i was thinking of going "you hear a shout from the far northwest"
07:15:30 <alefury> but "you hear a distant shout from the northwest" might be better
07:16:28 <alefury> im happy to take suggestions for good messages, english is not my first language and im sure whatever i come up with will sound pretty weird
07:17:05 <alefury> http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/shout.txt
07:17:07 <alefury> for reference
07:17:43 <alefury> put @distance@ and @direction@ in the unseen messages in a way so these placeholders can be consistently replaced
07:18:09 <HangedMan> "SOUND:You hear a low."
07:19:27 <HangedMan> not finding anything in dictionaries that indicates that makes any sense
07:19:56 <alefury> apparently its supposed to be the sound an ox makes
07:20:07 <alefury> i have no idea if thats actually what it means :)
07:20:10 <HangedMan> oh, found it now
07:20:27 <HangedMan> seems rather weird but whatever
07:23:31 <alefury> should I use "You hear a @distance@ shout@direction@."? Replacing @distance@ with "nearby" and "distant", not using "a long way away"; and @direction@ with " from the northwest"
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07:24:32 <alefury> unseen messages are also used for invisible monsters on tiles you can see, in which case direction would be "" and distance "uncomfortably close" or something
07:25:22 <alefury> might be better to split unseen messages for out of los and invisibles so @direction@ can be replaced with something more sane
07:25:36 <moxian> if i'm not mistaken, you can use "faraway" as an adjective instead of "a long way away"
07:25:36 <alefury> doing it the way i just described might make it hard to use for other sounds
07:26:00 <alefury> is that clearly further away than distant?
07:26:07 <moxian> no
07:26:51 <moxian> I'd say it's ratherfurther than not, but it'sdefinitely not clear
07:27:47 <moxian> What about "very distant"?
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07:28:57 <alefury> that would work
07:35:22 <moxian> It seems to work fine with most other sounds too by mere replacing "shout" by an appropriate sound - bark/hiss/roar/grinding noise etc.
07:36:12 <moxian> not for speech though. But speech isn't supposed to be heard from out of los
07:36:38 <alefury> yeah, i'm only really concerned with the "you hear" messages
07:42:31 <alefury> what about invisible enemies? should direction still be given for those? it would certainly make sense...
07:42:48 <alefury> might make it too easy to determine their position though
07:42:49 <moxian> it would
07:42:58 <moxian> i don't think it's bad
07:43:28 <alefury> hm, i suppose if surround sound was added it would also work for invisible enemies, so wed have to print the direction in the message, too
07:52:14 <alefury> within los = distance <= 7, right?
07:52:55 <alefury> also, should the distance be different for close sources you cant see?
07:53:33 <alefury> (i.e. should it be different for invisible enemies within los, and for stuff inside los radius but not visible because theres something in the way)
07:53:35 <alefury> probably not
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08:24:12 <alefury> shit, i know nothing about strings
08:24:18 <alefury> this is quite annoying :/
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08:46:20 <alefury> ahhhh, i wrote my direction logic assuming a wrong coordinate system :(
08:46:43 <alefury> just have north and south inverted though, so whatever
08:50:05 <alefury> urgh
08:50:55 <alefury> whats a phrase for "where you are standing" equivalent to "north"? Note that north is often prepended with "the", while this doesn't work for "where you are standing"
08:51:17 <Eronarn> 'north of'?
08:51:22 <alefury> i could incorporate the "the" into the return value, or try to come up with something that works
08:51:30 <Eronarn> not sure i get exactly what you are asking though
08:51:53 <alefury> it should be usable in "You hear a @distance@ shout from the @direction@."
08:52:31 <alefury> own position doesnt matter for shouts of course, but it does for projected noise for example
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08:59:57 <alefury> could always special case it in the projected noise logic i guess, but i would prefer to return something that doesnt sound weird
09:00:27 <alefury> "place you are standing at" works
09:00:45 <alefury> still weird, but at least grammatically correct :/
09:00:49 <alefury> i hope
09:01:22 <|amethyst> leave off the "at"
09:01:37 <|amethyst> works just as well without, and that keeps pedants away
09:02:10 <alefury> hmkay :)
09:03:05 <alefury> any opinion on where the functions converting position to distance/direction string should go? is shout.cc fine? or would misc.cc be better?
09:03:21 <alefury> i guess most things that deal with noise include shout.cc
09:03:33 <MarvinPA> putting things in misc.cc sounds bad in general :P
09:03:37 <alefury> :)
09:04:15 <|amethyst> well, will it be used for things other than noise?
09:04:28 <moxian> portals maybe
09:04:46 <|amethyst> then whoever wants to use it for portals can move it out of shout.cc :)
09:04:58 <alefury> |amethyst: im making a patch to include direction and distance information for noise
09:05:06 <alefury> so im certainly not planning on it
09:05:44 <MarvinPA> well announced portals shouldn't use it, the whole point there is that you have to figure it out yourself
09:05:55 <MarvinPA> but they don't use actual noise so yeah
09:06:06 <|amethyst> s/figure it out yourself/carry a scroll of magic mapping/
09:06:29 <alefury> it would be a bit inconsistent to not give a direction for some noise
09:06:55 <alefury> but this was talked about back when this was talked about
09:07:12 <alefury> iirc the direction gets screwed up by the dungeon or something
09:07:33 <MarvinPA> "magic"
09:07:38 <alefury> right, portal magic!
09:07:41 <alefury> that too
09:08:16 <kilobyte> Labs reflect the sound so many times it makes sense for it to be non-directional
09:09:05 <alefury> it still comes out of the portal
09:09:20 <alefury> so there is a pretty clear point of origin when youre in the dungeon
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09:11:46 <alefury> btw, distance scale: < 5 uncomfortably close, < 15 nearby, < 30 distant, >= 30 very distant
09:12:14 <|amethyst> I assume that's a linear distance and not a distance^2, right?
09:12:18 <alefury> yes
09:12:31 <alefury> square those for distance^2 (which is what i did)
09:12:53 <alefury> i didnt want to put a breakpoint at los radius so you cant be sure an uncomfortably close shout came from an invisible enemy if youre in the open
09:13:26 <alefury> and without another tier "nearby" feels a bit huge. but i could drop the lowest tier
09:13:28 <|amethyst> huh?
09:13:55 <alefury> the unseen shout messages get used for invisible monsters whose cell you can see shouting
09:14:30 <|amethyst> right... how would adding a breakpoint at LOS affect "uncomfortably close"?
09:14:38 <|amethyst> I mean "nearby" I can understand
09:15:02 <alefury> well, if youre in the open and hear an uncomfortably close shout, and the breakpoint for that is los range, you could be sure theres an invisible enemy nearby
09:15:26 <|amethyst> alefury:  and if the breakpoint is < LOS, won't you be even more sure?
09:15:40 <alefury> uh, right
09:15:54 <|amethyst> still, "nearby" works like you are saying
09:15:56 <alefury> what i meant is, if you hear a nearby shout you could be sure its an enemy out of los and not an invisible enemy
09:15:58 <|amethyst> which is good
09:16:00 <|amethyst> yeah
09:16:21 <alefury> uncomfortably close is also used in other messages to mean "in sight", though
09:17:53 <|amethyst> you wouldn't want it to be based on "in sight" or player's LOS though
09:18:05 <alefury> i do like the wording regarding noise, though, close loud noises tend to be pretty uncomfortable
09:18:27 <alefury> yes. i mean uncomfortably close is used for autoexplore fail messages and maybe other stuff
09:18:40 <alefury> i think
09:18:42 <alefury> let me find a monster
09:18:57 <alefury> hmm
09:19:22 <alefury> maybe just for submerged enemies
09:19:42 <|amethyst> I think it's fine if "uncomfortably close" means different things for sound vs vision
09:19:44 <MarvinPA> "An ogre is nearby!" for trying to autoexplore
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09:22:14 <alefury> mhh, i think it was "too close now for your liking" anyway
09:24:05 <alefury> oh well
09:24:24 <alefury> time to do other stuff, ill finish this later. done so far: projected noise (for easy testing)
09:25:52 <alefury> re projected noise, if you target something solid, no noise is made and you hear a dull thud
09:26:32 <alefury> is that dull thud coming from the target (which means it should give distance and direction info) or is it just in your head or something?
09:27:07 <alefury> also, should projected noise give this information at all? after all you know where the sound is coming from
09:41:04 <MarvinPA> anyone have any suggestions for what step from time should do in shoals/abyss? currently it can drop you on top of deep water or inside a rock wall
09:41:26 <MarvinPA> (although it doesn't actually bother to check for that so you don't drown)
09:41:47 <Grunt> For Shoals, have it check for that (if you're stupid enough to step from time above the tides, you deserve it).
09:42:01 <Grunt> For Abyss, perhaps shove the player to the nearest safe tile?
09:43:14 <MarvinPA> shoals tries not to drown you in general, it should probably be forgiving for time step too
09:43:48 <MarvinPA> otherwise it'd follow that it should act the same way in abyss and just instagib you whenever you use it which would be a bit silly
09:47:38 <alefury> it could gib you with a warning
09:48:07 <alefury> probably shouldnt, though
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09:49:49 <vivec_> the autoexplore bug is dead, long live the crawl devs
09:50:09 <Grunt> It's not 100% dead, but you can thank galehar specifically for that.
09:52:28 <vivec_> a lot more dead than it was before, thanks galehar
10:10:32 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2405-g9f5738f (33)
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10:26:54 <alefury> is there a simply way to concatene string literals?
10:27:02 <alefury> concatenate*
10:27:56 <Wensley> doesn't + do that
10:28:03 <Wensley> or maybe it is <<
10:28:09 <Wensley> or possibly !+=
10:28:12 <Wensley> can never tell with c++\
10:28:55 <Wensley> also if they are string literals you could just manually concatenate them :P
10:29:21 <alefury> well, not exactly string literals, string literals and char*
10:29:40 <Wensley> can't you use format strings for that
10:29:50 <alefury> probably? i dont know about strings
10:29:58 <Wensley> neither do I. let us learn
10:30:21 <Wensley> I think %c is what you want
10:30:39 <alefury> i know mpr etc can do it with %s, but this particular functions works by having a variable msg, putting one of several messages in there, and printing it later.
10:30:53 <Wensley> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/cstdio/printf/
10:31:56 <alefury> i guess i could just use string objects and use +, but that seems a bit clumsy, and i have no idea if that works when mixing strings and char*
10:33:22 <frogbotherer> in the past i've used std::string and then + to concatenate
10:33:37 <frogbotherer> and .c_str() to get them back to char*
10:33:46 <alefury> :(
10:34:02 <frogbotherer> i'm by no means a pro at this tho ;)
10:34:17 <alefury> sometimes i miss java
10:35:57 <alefury> most stuff seems to just do it with mprf
10:37:03 <alefury> i wonder what happens if i call that with too many arguments, and just put %s in some of the messages...
10:37:12 <alefury> seems very hacky :(
10:37:15 <Wensley> doesn't java do something like
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10:37:46 <alefury> Wensley: in java all strings are always objects all the time
10:38:04 <Wensley> alefury: well I think that is true for many things in Java :P
10:38:24 <Wensley> aren't even int and other primitives objects nowadays
10:38:29 <alefury> well, for integers theres int and Int, and only Int is an object IIRC
10:39:02 <alefury> that was a while ago though, no idea how it is now
10:39:46 <Wensley> "J2SE 5.0 introduced autoboxing of primitive types into their wrapper object, and automatic unboxing of the wrapper objects into their primitive value—the implicit conversion between the wrapper objects and primitive values."
10:40:39 <|amethyst> Wensley:  that means if you have a function that wants an Integer, an int will be converted to one
10:41:00 <|amethyst> the int still isn't an object, but the temporary Integer is
10:41:07 <Wensley> but is (5).toString() valid?
10:41:18 <|amethyst> I don't think so, no
10:41:24 <Wensley> I see
10:41:46 <|amethyst> not sure about Integer i = 3;
10:41:59 <|amethyst> I haven't used Java in a long time
10:42:09 <alefury> im pretty sure that works
10:42:58 <alefury> |amethyst: any comments on calling mprf with too many arguments?
10:43:26 <|amethyst> Frankie Goes to Hollywood had a song about that
10:43:30 <|amethyst> Relax, don't do it
10:43:48 <alefury> :(
10:43:56 <|amethyst> hm
10:44:13 <alefury> bah, then i have to rewrite this to move the mprf into the switch statement
10:44:13 <|amethyst> wonder if we can rely on positional printf arguments
10:44:21 <alefury> oh well
10:44:22 <|amethyst> what are the two cases?
10:44:42 <alefury> _nuke_wall_msg in beam.cc
10:45:08 <alefury> the out of sight stuff you can hear should get distance + direction added to it i guess
10:47:20 <|amethyst> you could leave in a useless %s in the seen messages, and use  (hear && !see) ? distdir : ""  as the argument
10:48:16 <|amethyst> err
10:48:24 <|amethyst> isn't the DNGN_ORCISH_IDEOL logic backwards?
10:48:28 <|amethyst> s/IDEOL/IDOL/
10:48:33 <alefury> i didnt get to that yet :/
10:48:42 <|amethyst> the if (see) is backwards I mean
10:48:59 <alefury> yes
10:49:48 <|amethyst> anyway, I've got to go, good luck
10:50:05 <|amethyst> and someone should look over the patches Grunt has submitted
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11:09:51 <alefury> hm, i think i should use some proper way to concatenate strings :(
11:11:00 <alefury> there are way too many places where i need to
11:14:10 <alefury> i could insert placeholders, then replace them and convert back to c_str()
11:14:26 <alefury> kilobyte: any ideas how to do this stuff cleanly?
11:15:15 <alefury> i assume performance doesnt really matter in this case, so i guess its about what will make the code look the least horrible
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11:34:04 <eeviac_> is there some minimum str/ddex required for min delay bows?
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12:15:42 <Cheibriados> dlua "turn" triggerers cannot be used without countdown properties (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5826) by sgrunt
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12:23:53 <alefury> eeviac_: im not sure there even is a reachable min delay for bows
12:26:03 <eeviac_> with 25 skill I have .7
12:26:09 <eeviac_> with 18/11 str/dex
12:26:16 <eeviac_> I guess that's ok
12:29:24 <alefury> ??launcher delay
12:29:25 <Henzell> launcher delay[1/1]: Base delay is reduced by (weapon skill) * (weighted combination of str and dex) / 62.5. Strength weights are sling: 1, bow: 2, longbow: 3, xbow: 8.
12:29:34 <alefury> this says more stats will get it lower, forever
12:29:42 <alefury> no idea if its accurate
12:30:02 <eeviac_> so with longbows, str is 3x as important as dex?
12:30:36 <alefury> no, dex is 2x as important as str
12:31:10 <alefury> i think the formula is weighted_stats = (weight * str + (10 - weight) * dex) / 10
12:31:40 <alefury> im guessing, though :P
12:31:51 <ChrisOelmueller> is that documented anywhere?
12:32:02 <eeviac_> I read launcher delay as strength being 3x as important as dex
12:32:14 <eeviac_> but 8x for xbows would make no sense then
12:32:16 <alefury> i dont even know if its true, much less documented :P
12:32:18 <kilobyte> alefury: std::string sucks if the first one is an untyped literal (ie, const char*), otherwise just use +
12:32:18 <evilmike> it's completely bizarre for crossbows to be more str-heavy than longbows
12:32:36 <alefury> kilobyte: like how? when i tried it it didnt seem to work
12:32:41 <ChrisOelmueller> now we all know nobody would call above formula "bizarre"
12:32:44 <ChrisOelmueller> luckily
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12:33:11 <kilobyte> alefury: of course, if there are two literals next to each other, always use no operand -- they'll be concatenated at compile time rather than at runtime
12:33:16 <alefury> ChrisOelmueller: the one i just made up? i made it up like that because it makes sense, you know.
12:33:23 <ChrisOelmueller> no, ??launcher damage
12:33:34 <alefury> kilobyte: what if i have a literal, and a char* returned by a function?
12:33:43 <alefury> because thats the case i care about
12:34:13 <kilobyte> then you need to mark the first one as std::string
12:34:48 <kilobyte> std::string("meow") + that_char_stuff()
12:34:54 <kilobyte> or use make_stringf()
12:35:00 <alefury> ah, okay
12:35:20 <alefury> that sounds like it would be useful, yes :)
12:35:39 <kilobyte> I can't recall if it was Crawl or LPC, where sprintf() was actually faster than string addition, would have to check
12:35:49 <alefury> i guess ill use a mix of replacements and make_stringf() then
12:35:59 <Cheibriados> Monster-cast Leda's Liquefaction persists indefinitely after monster death (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5827) by sgrunt
12:36:19 <alefury> or well, i could do replacements via make_stringf() too, would just have to put it at the end
12:36:52 <kilobyte> why at the end?  make_stringf("abc %s def")
12:38:21 <alefury> some functions seem put all the messages in a switch statement, then print it at the end, so inserting the %s at the end wouldnt bloat it
12:38:40 <alefury> anyway, make_stringf is good to know about :)
12:40:26 <alefury> by the way, any way to test nuke_feature()? boring beetles and digging use their own messages.
12:40:38 <alefury> _nuke_wall_msg i mean
12:41:04 <Cheibriados> Three altar vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5828) by sgrunt
12:41:25 <Grunt> evilmike, you may be interested in seeing grunt_nemelex_the_gamble :)
12:44:37 <evilmike> Grunt: looks interesting. I'll give some feedback a bit later
12:46:09 <MarvinPA> hmm... why don't messages that start with "You" work for message_colour changes?
12:46:18 <alefury> kilobyte: is this: (make_stringf("You hear a %s splash in the %s.", distance_string(pos()), direction_string(pos()))).c_str() acceptable? or should i declare a variable for it, then c_str() that?
12:46:38 <alefury> MarvinPA: because they check capitalization and you tried "you"?
12:46:52 <MarvinPA> nope
12:47:05 <MarvinPA> "msc = $danger:You are engulfed in calcifying dust" is one of the defaults, and it doesn't work ingame
12:47:33 <alefury> hm, weird
12:47:35 <MarvinPA> nor does adding "You convulse", but "convulse" alone does work
12:48:18 <MarvinPA> ah, maybe this was broken by capitalisation changes
12:48:26 <MarvinPA> "msc = $danger:you convulse" works
12:48:36 <MarvinPA> even though the actual message is capitalised
12:50:32 <alefury> aw crap
12:50:43 <alefury> id have to deal with a/an
12:51:25 <alefury> a nearby splash, an uncomfortably close splash
12:51:43 <alefury> any replacement for uncomfortably close that starts with a consonant?
12:52:04 <alefury> id rather just axe the lowest distance tier than deal with that crap :(
12:52:44 <Grunt> I would suggest "deafening", but the sounds aren't necessarily loud, are they?
12:53:00 <Eronarn> disquietingly
12:53:03 <Eronarn> (get it)
12:53:17 <Grunt> ...that's terrible. XD
12:54:02 <Eronarn> all crawl will be assimilated into puns
12:55:34 <alefury> most of the sounds are either loud or dont have a specified loudness, but deafening doesnt really fit i think
12:56:01 <alefury> somebody shouting at the top of their lungs in a few meters distance is not deafening
12:56:09 <alefury> just uncomfortably close ^^
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12:58:22 <evilmike> Grunt: first thing I'd suggest, is use player_los instead of player_move for the announcement. Stick it somewhere that the player will always see it when opening the door
12:58:43 <Grunt> ...the altar, perhaps?
12:59:18 <evilmike> could work. It really doesn't matter where you put it, it just has to be somewhere immediately visible
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13:01:57 <alefury> anyway, if someone comes up with something please tell me, ill axe the lowest distance tier for now
13:02:19 <alefury> it doesnt really matter much anyway, if stuff happens right next to you you can usually see it
13:03:06 <evilmike> Grunt: I'd also place multiple items on one square in the loot room. This way you can see one of them, but the rest are a mystery
13:03:47 <Grunt> Mm.
13:03:56 <Grunt> Perhaps I can put a plain deck of cards on top of the stack.
13:04:45 <evilmike> I'd probably stick a suberb_item (same as "|") on top of the stack, and then fill the rest with random stuff
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13:11:32 <Eronarn> alefury: i was serious about disquieting
13:11:33 <Eronarn> it's a cute pun but also makes sense if you don't know it
13:12:03 <alefury> hm
13:12:10 <alefury> you hear a disquieting splash from the northeast
13:12:15 <alefury> hmm
13:13:05 <Grunt> "disquietingly close"
13:13:42 <alefury> mhh, ill just put that in, if someone comes up with something better it can easily be changed
13:15:37 <alefury> also, 80 cols is really too short
13:16:53 <alefury> there definitely has to be a call for message improvements if this goes in :(
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13:17:42 <alefury> incorporating this stuff into the existing messages often doesnt work great, and i cant make up new ones
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13:18:40 <alefury> on the other hand, out of sight statue disintegration is not exactly a message that will be seen often
13:18:54 <evilmike> Grunt: the nemelex vault is giving me a lua error every turn
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13:20:23 <alefury> what is the point of this line:
13:20:24 <alefury> mprf(MSGCH_SOUND, "%s", noise_msg.c_str());
13:20:35 <alefury> shouldnt that just use mpr?
13:27:19 <evilmike> Grunt: I think you should pre-define the nasty monster. I just got a rock worm
13:28:43 <HangedMan> or use metal?
13:29:36 <alefury> i changed that line to "mpr(noise_msg, MSGCH_SOUND);"
13:29:52 <alefury> its in beam.cc around 4560
13:30:55 <alefury> should be equivalent, right?
13:45:02 <MarvinPA> disquieting doesn't describe distance, that doesn't make any sense on its own
13:49:45 <CIA-50> 03MarvinPA * rbaf01b50799d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc main.cc): Mention suiciding the current character when using ^Q (#5759)
13:49:46 <CIA-50> 03MarvinPA * rd0cf19140766 10/crawl-ref/settings/messages.txt: Add "You convulse" to the default $danger-coloured messages
13:49:46 <CIA-50> 03MarvinPA * r5bdd56fffda0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (output.cc player-equip.cc): Don't identify gourmand for vampires, don't show it on % for races that can't identify it
13:49:46 <CIA-50> 03MarvinPA * rafb1d1f46800 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Fix a crystal golem speech line
13:50:25 <evilmike> Grunt: oh, I see you uploaded a fix for that lua error
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14:09:43 <kilobyte> MarvinPA, others: would you care to check if lightning rods appear to make sense (especially the damage)?
14:10:04 <kilobyte> I'm flailing wildly about what values would be right
14:10:53 <Wensley> kermitbyte
14:13:59 <MarvinPA> ah, the branch is called lighting-rod not lightning-rod, that'd explain why i was failing to check it out :P
14:14:12 <MarvinPA> and sure, i'll have a play with it
14:14:40 <Wensley> ooh, it should give you corona while wielding it
14:14:49 <Wensley> wait no that is just one more thing for me to suppress
14:15:01 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: ook
14:15:48 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: obviously, feedback like "this sucks, I don't want it in Crawl" would be valid, too
14:17:19 <kilobyte> possible design issues: 1. no other effect works differently when used two times in a row, 2. all area effects work strictly better if the area is bigger, here the damage is mostly spread out which can potentially confuse players
14:17:50 <Eronarn> 1. EH
14:17:52 <kilobyte> (and I singled out you for feedback because you and galehar are folks who talk about specific damage numbers the most)
14:18:48 <kilobyte> Eronarn: good point.  EH should really take no turns in that case, it's so spoily even I sometimes manage to not notice and get caught by it.
14:19:24 <kilobyte> (when there are multiple monsters, that is)
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14:20:50 <MarvinPA> hm yeah, is the sleep immunity duration even randomised? if not there's definitely no excuse not to just reveal it
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14:23:19 <MarvinPA> ah i guess it's fuzzed a bit, but even so it can be pretty spoily and annoying
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14:25:46 <MarvinPA> spl-damage.cc: In function 'spret_type cast_thunderbolt(actor*, int, coord_def, bool)':
14:25:46 <MarvinPA> spl-damage.cc:1939: error: 'struct bolt' has no member named 'tile_beam'
14:25:56 <MarvinPA> i get that when trying to compile lightning rods
14:27:25 <MarvinPA> ah, it only exists in actual tile builds i think?
14:34:07 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte 07lighting-rod * r955b50b0cec0 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Unbreak non-tile builds.
14:38:24 <MarvinPA> hm, what category has rods in it for wizmode acquirement? i can't seem to get one
14:38:38 <alefury> You heare a distant explosion from/in/to the northeast!
14:38:43 <alefury> opinions?
14:38:46 <alefury> also, hear
14:38:46 <HangedMan> isn't it still staff
14:39:02 <kilobyte> acquirement works like before, split with staves
14:39:18 <MarvinPA> hm, &o| doesn't seem to work for getting rods
14:39:25 <kilobyte> faster to use &% instead of relying on acquirement
14:39:29 <kilobyte> ah, &o
14:39:59 <MarvinPA> oh yeah, i always forget about &%
14:51:23 <kilobyte> I added so much needed support to acquire gold via &o€, &o£ and &o¥
14:51:32 <kilobyte> beh, perhaps players should get it too :)
14:52:01 <kilobyte> uhm no, they select by letter rather than symbol
14:52:04 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * rceaff5dee328 10/crawl-ref/source/ (25 files): Make a bunch of functions static or gone.
14:52:04 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * re8b8168dad2b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (pattern.cc pattern.h): Drop unused plain glob support.
14:52:04 <CIA-50> 03Grunt * r492c4399032c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-ench.cc mon-stuff.cc): Make monster casts of Leda's Liquefaction expire on death.
14:52:15 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r643abc8aa297 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-item.cc: Let &o produce rods.
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15:01:25 <Thann> !messages
15:01:26 <Henzell> No messages for Thann.
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15:03:35 <ghallberg> Thann: Forever Alone
15:03:44 <Thann> lol i know
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15:26:13 <alefury> can you be mesmerized by a mermaid you cant see?
15:26:34 <alefury> theres code for it, but it never happened to me
15:36:01 <alefury> oh, its for invisible mermaids
15:36:02 <alefury> ...
15:36:12 <alefury> should i give the direction of the song of invisible mermaids?
15:37:11 <alefury> hm, probably...
15:37:45 <alefury> not giving distance, though
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15:54:21 <kilobyte> evilmike: so, should we proceed with removal of wax?
15:55:28 <BlastHardcheese> fr mermaid unique with invis
15:55:52 <evilmike> kilobyte: yeah sure. It's just a small question what to do with vaults that currently use wax
15:56:18 <kilobyte> COLOUR: a = yellow
15:56:18 <kilobyte> TILE:   a = dngn_wax_wall
15:56:19 <kilobyte> SUBST:  a = x
15:56:38 <kilobyte> hmm, can be misleading for old players
15:56:39 <evilmike> I was thinking of making them yellow rock, dngn_wax_wall doesn't look much like rock though
15:56:54 <evilmike> so a different yellow tile would be better, maybe
15:56:57 <Eronarn> can we get a wax wall monster or something?
15:57:00 <Eronarn> because it is very flavorful
15:58:44 <kilobyte> wall_hive (beehives0 .. 9)
15:59:17 <kilobyte> it sometimes randomly spawns in the Abyss, where it looks totally out of place
15:59:31 <kilobyte> Eronarn: and when killed, it produces a stack of candles?
16:00:10 <Eronarn> you can use beeswax for other stuff :)
16:00:17 <Eronarn> they use it in some surgeries, actually
16:00:32 <HangedMan> most of the abyss rock wall tiles look pretty bad in the abyss anyway
16:00:41 <HangedMan> like the cocytus walls
16:01:11 <evilmike> I'm going to edit all the wax-using vaults now
16:01:21 <kilobyte> too late
16:01:36 <evilmike> heh
16:02:05 <kilobyte> I removed it from what I've found, made trying to place an 'a' glyph a fatal error, and currently I'm running -mapstat on all cores
16:02:49 <ChrisOelmueller> wax is dying?
16:02:55 <ChrisOelmueller> yay~
16:11:11 <kilobyte> is there any better way to repeatedly try to place all maps?
16:11:56 <kilobyte> abusing -mapstat and hoping it finds all offenders is not error-proof
16:13:31 <kilobyte> evilmike: what would be the best replacement?  For vaults that use wax as something more substantial than a random substitution, I'm using the snippet I just pasted.
16:13:38 <kilobyte> should it be wall_hive instead?
16:14:43 <BlastHardcheese> jelly walls
16:15:26 <Grunt> You poke the wall.  The wall wobbles slightly.
16:17:10 <kilobyte> Your finger fizzles and dissolves into the acid.
16:17:15 <Grunt> evilmike, there is a slightly tweaked version of the_gamble available.
16:17:29 <Grunt> kilobyte, thanks for the swift response on the Leda's bug :)
16:17:47 <kilobyte> there's a crapload of your patches rotting on Mantis, too
16:18:02 <Grunt> They're not exactly rotting; it's only been a couple of days since I submitted most of them <_<
16:18:59 <evilmike> kilobyte: i'd use wall_hive rather than dngn_wax_wall
16:19:12 <evilmike> kilobyte: but other than that I'd say that's the best way to do it
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17:28:15 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r902b114bb83f 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Fix a crash when a scaredy cat dies while afraid of an eidolon.
17:28:16 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r59db581c924f 10/crawl-ref/ (13 files in 7 dirs): Remove wax walls from all vaults.
17:28:17 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r256b326ba667 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files in 5 dirs): Axe wax.
17:30:03 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * rc2568937ff67 10/crawl-ref/source/branch-data.h: Revert "Use brown for rock walls in Spider."
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17:54:05 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rb56f58d6ea53 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Fix a crash when a scaredy cat dies while afraid of an eidolon.
17:54:15 <CIA-50> 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r102f86ac1f49 10/crawl-ref/settings/messages.txt: Add "You convulse" to the default $danger-coloured messages
17:57:42 <kilobyte> edlothiol: looks like webtiles on CDO use comma as a decimal separator
17:58:50 <kilobyte> ok, should bother Napkin instead
17:58:53 <HangedMan> < minqmay> well i am pretty sure it would actually be faster to change
17:58:53 <HangedMan> the ITEM: line in minmay_hunger yourself than go to mantis
17:58:57 <HangedMan> first
17:58:59 <HangedMan> ...argh
17:59:14 <HangedMan> < minqmay> there isn't supposed to be any weight, the idea was just to be ITEM: randart ring of hunger
18:02:57 <kilobyte> !tell Napkin looks like webtiles on CDO run in a de_DE locale, which causes printf to produce a comma instead of a decimal dot
18:02:57 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let Napkin know.
18:05:48 <kilobyte> Napkin: obviously, it's not a good idea to change that on Crawl's side, as I guess German folks may want their locale to be obeyed (especially when translations get added)
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18:13:20 <Patashu> I heard wax got removed, does this mean it is now impossible to get the demonic rune in sprint 3?
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18:14:03 <HangedMan> replaced with rock walls coloured yellow, just dig
18:14:29 <kilobyte> it means sprint 3 will crash on startup, as my tests checked only maps in the regular game
18:14:49 <HangedMan> oh
18:16:05 <kilobyte> evilmike: what about renaming sprint_v.des to something about zigsprint?
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18:28:16 <evilmike> kilobyte: could do that. I'd rename sprint and sprint2 as well
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18:42:05 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * rae9d9c0545fb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint2.des: Fix an unoperative flame machine in Sprint 2.
18:42:08 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r6b14cb19fe99 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint_mu.des: Fix Sprint Mu from crashing at startup (due to wax).
18:42:19 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r0ed6c714526a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/ (6 files): Rename three sprint file names to something better than sprint${number}.des
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20:40:04 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r2f3cabce6760 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Remove the loot in golem_altar2.
20:40:14 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r5eeb4a87fc20 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/altar.des: Make lemuel_hidden_altar less hidden.
20:45:28 <Grunt> evilmike is making a vault less evil?
20:45:31 * Grunt 's mind explodes.
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20:46:12 <evilmike> there's a semi-policy where vaults shouldn't be obnoxious about hiding stuff. The problem is that most of these are hidden well enough that I don't know about them
20:46:36 <evilmike> and I never got around to combing through several thousand lines of des files (I did edit a large chunk of them a while back though)
20:46:54 <Eronarn> evilmike: can you fix the crypt end with the secret doors where they are always in the same place but sometimes are inaccessible because of the rng
20:47:04 <HangedMan> quadcrypt_mu
20:47:13 <Eronarn> it's really shitty design
20:47:25 <Eronarn> it's okay if the doors move but the chambers should never be inaccessible
20:47:44 <HangedMan> inaccessible without ctele or lrd/shatter
20:48:01 <Eronarn> same thing
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20:48:30 <evilmike> hmm, I just realized, that can be fixed by using subvaults
20:49:51 <evilmike> (instead of randomizing the doors, just avoid placing the entire room)
20:50:35 <Grunt> !dump .
20:50:37 <Henzell> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/SGrunt/SGrunt.txt
20:50:37 <Grunt> er
20:50:48 <Grunt> I keep thinkining I'm over in ##crawl when I type those things, sorry.
20:51:25 <HangedMan> gruntmethyst
20:51:49 <Grunt> I can live without a | in front of my name, thanks.
20:54:09 <MarvinPA> evilmike: that would be good, i had to add staircases to a bunch of those secret chambers because you could get stuck in them if a secret door didn't generate
20:54:20 <MarvinPA> subvaulting it sounds better
20:54:37 <Eronarn> evilmike: that... strikes me as not the right solution
20:54:49 <Eronarn> why not just have the rooms always be there but place the doors in different spots (and guarantee doors)
20:55:08 <evilmike> Eronarn: I'm looking at the vault right now and I'm leaning heavily towards that solution
20:55:23 <evilmike> I'm looking at this and thinking "adding subvaults will be such a pain in the ass"
20:55:31 <HangedMan> mu is worse then I am
20:55:38 <evilmike> not quite
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20:56:06 <HangedMan> late at night I wake up in horror because I recall some bit of sprint_mu
20:56:11 <Eronarn> yeah as i understand it the only reason it even has that behavior is because nobody wanted to try to fix the shuffling
20:57:10 <MarvinPA> !seen Mu_
20:57:11 <Henzell> I last saw Mu_ at Fri Mar 23 22:59:37 2012 UTC (13w 1d 2h 57m 34s ago) quitting with message Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place..
20:57:15 <MarvinPA> :(
20:58:40 <Grunt> !gkills
20:58:44 <Grunt> ...
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20:58:54 <Grunt> I did it again. >:|
20:58:55 <Sequell> 15 games for * (killer=~sgrunt'*ghost): 4x SGrunt, johnnyzero, davejl, heteroy, nfogravity, Poncheis, nmf, Moose, artnam, danharaj, eeviac, Sky
20:59:00 * Grunt hangs his head in shame.
21:14:02 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r1baa356dae7e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des: Don't place inaccessible rooms in quadcrypt_mu.
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22:05:18 <Nomi> mmm
22:05:40 <Nomi> looks like i have items under rocks in this d:21
22:06:29 <Nomi> http://pastebin.com/UbmHdna4
22:26:45 <Cheibriados> More Sif overflow altars (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5829) by BurningLed
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