00:01:08 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-969-g4767ef7 (34) 00:01:25 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-969-g4767ef7 (34) 00:02:09 -!- codrus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:02:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:56 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-969-g4767ef7 00:10:51 -!- frogman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:18:46 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:42 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:20:51 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:59 -!- G-Flex has quit [] 00:24:04 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:30 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:50:32 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:57 -!- Transfusion is now known as RainbowDashh 00:57:17 -!- RainbowDashh has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:01:43 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:13 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:04:42 -!- johnstein has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 01:04:55 -!- Transfusion has quit [Changing host] 01:12:00 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:12:24 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:18 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:51 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:56 -!- Rewans has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:20:52 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:29:44 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-973-gaf49a04: Dragon themed Lair ending. (Guppyfry) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 44+ 0-) 13https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/af49a04c8110 01:29:44 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-972-g316f740: Misc vaults. (Guppyfry) 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 91+ 0-) 13https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/316f74078690 01:29:44 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-971-ga11356b: Minivaults with portals to Pandemonium. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 148+ 0-) 13https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a11356b2a7ae 01:29:44 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-970-g6d96d0e: Sewer and ossuary entry vaults. (Guppyfry) 10(39 minutes ago, 2 files, 125+ 0-) 13https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/6d96d0ee52fc 01:34:33 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:39:11 -!- SlyShy1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47:21 -!- codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:33 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:41 -!- mfcstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:41 -!- mfcstein_ is now known as mfcstein 01:52:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:01:48 what happened to the server activity graph here: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/per-day.html ? 02:05:04 -!- Nexos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 02:06:29 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:34 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:12 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:20:21 jeanjacques: it isn't working until CAO sorts out some packages, but sequell makes graphs now 02:20:40 !lg * !boring s=day(end) x=cdist(name) -graph 02:20:50 1493041 games for * (!boring s=day(end)): http://shalott.org/graphs/528af3c4e54558e5ee23b9f6639f28835df6e6c7.html 02:23:38 -!- codrus_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:30:04 nice i guess boring is short for quit/leave? 02:31:32 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:51 yes 02:31:59 it should be called sebi instead 02:32:05 !lg * boring s=name 02:32:09 416859 games for * (boring s=name): 100763x Sebi, 20755x Meow, 13418x syban, 8247x adamzap, 7926x Ivo, 7323x TGW, 6871x Xiberia, 5668x Fieros, 4546x uru, 4436x Arved, 4399x Maurice, 4233x Donatan, 4055x Eronarn, 3613x dirge23, 3327x Fruden, 3156x eir, 3115x DrPraetor, 2963x snow, 2832x Yakesh, 2537x Nikinyo, 2028x G7x, 2026x Elynae, 1994x oxeimon, 1952x firemonkey, 1870x heteroy, 1681x Tenaya, 164... 02:32:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:32 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 02:36:08 -!- KoEE has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:37:24 -!- eb has quit [] 03:06:17 -!- popbob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:47 -!- zell65 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 03:31:15 -!- Wehk__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:35 -!- Wehk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:37 -!- hagb4rd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:44:10 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:19 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:17 -!- Sali has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:52:36 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:58 -!- Spectrina has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:50 -!- Tabesh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:14:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 04:20:43 -!- friendlybee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:24:43 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:29:34 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:27 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:35:30 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-973-gaf49a04 05:09:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:52 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:30:14 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:30:28 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:36 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:24 -!- Kurshu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:59:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:01:09 -!- hEll`bOoy has quit [Quit: Leaving (JedIrc 3.2)] 06:03:43 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:05:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:21 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:34 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:41 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:13:56 -!- tollymain has quit [Quit: tollymain] 06:21:51 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:22:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:23:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:52 -!- Maeglor has quit [Client Quit] 06:27:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:36 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:10 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:10 -!- syllogism- has quit [Client Quit] 06:34:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42:19 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:18 -!- keszocze has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:53:43 -!- Morcar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:54:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:12 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:39 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:58:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:12 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:42 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:00:50 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:01:21 codrus makes an interesting suggestion on the wiki: +There is no longer a purpose to ever shoot or throw something with yourself as the target. Currently when you try to fire or throw something and there's no targets it defaults to self target asking Are you sure you want to target yourself? And the annoying [Y]es, [N]o - You /must use caps/ to answer!!! demand. Just get rid of all this and have it do nothing if there's no targets around. 07:01:30 What do you think? 07:01:38 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 07:01:59 dpeg: that's already an option AIUI 07:02:03 ??options guide 07:02:04 rcfile[2/4]: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt; 07:02:16 elliott: ok, so the proposal is to make that default. 07:02:19 1044 allow_self_target = (yes | no | prompt) 07:02:31 It's always annoying if the good stuff is hidden as an option. 07:02:50 allow_self_target = no seems less annoying for some things but more annoying for others 07:03:14 like if you are deliberately trying to do it, having to save and change an option would be kind of bad 07:03:19 something like the z/Z split might work? 07:03:23 elliott: could make it so that z = no self-target (no prompt), but Z = allows self-target (prompt). Both modulo the option. 07:03:40 I don't like the idea of having to change your game options from your default to perform a permissible in-game action, so being completely unable to hurt yourself without editing options would be weird IMO 07:03:41 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:51 elliott: but see above? 07:03:54 right, that works 07:04:08 throwing isn't on z though :) 07:04:19 (though does anyone actually use F?) 07:04:32 I agree: if it can be occasionally sensible (which self-targeting is, already with Mephitic Cloud), then it should be available. 07:04:42 New command: D = dumb actions 07:04:56 elliott: can it be useful to fire something at yourself? 07:05:25 I think I saw N7 (or some other good player) shoot a dart at himself to avoid getting a kill recorded for poison recently :P 07:05:36 not sure there's ever actually a use beyond hurting yourself 07:05:51 dispersal darts don't work on yourself, for example 07:06:02 maybe if you wanted to get poisoned for some reason 07:06:17 ...hardly a very common thing to want to do in general though 07:06:21 I could imagine exploding stuff, but it's a long shot :) 07:06:28 putting this into F seems okay 07:06:45 getting rid of the prompt is good, imo 07:07:23 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:28 i agree yes/no prompts are annoying in general 07:08:37 for dangerous stuff it's even risky, hence why so many prompts demand Y rather than y (because y is a direction, e.g. when moving into an exclusion... I quite like AceHack's solution here (things that would prompt for danger just do nothing and print a message telling you to do e.g. "m" + direction (to "m"ove in said direction) if you really want to do it))... just as a general principle 07:09:17 yes, that's a good concept 07:09:46 * dpeg points out that movement NW would be z on a German keyboard :) 07:09:51 work, back later 07:10:31 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:13:41 -!- Miron1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:16:56 -!- Miron has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:14 -!- florent__ is now known as jnaimard 07:29:30 -!- pointsofdata has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:00 -!- dosman711` is now known as dosman711 07:33:16 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:38:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:31 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:40:48 -!- yogidabear_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:43:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:01 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 07:45:24 -!- jnaimard has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:54:08 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:46 -!- Sandokan has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:45 -!- Palyth has quit [Quit: The computer fell asleep] 08:11:45 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16:53 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 08:16:59 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:16 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:28:00 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:29:12 -!- Zicher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:30:02 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:25 -!- CaptainPickles has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:35:05 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:36 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:16 back 08:40:06 !seen infiniplex 08:40:06 I last saw infiniplex at Fri Oct 26 04:59:50 2012 UTC (1w 3d 9h 40m 16s ago) quitting with message Quit: Page closed. 08:40:06 I last saw infiniplex at Fri Oct 26 04:34:19 2012 UTC (1w 3d 10h 5m 47s ago) joining the channel. 08:40:11 -!- pikkle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:45:13 -!- brownlee has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45:52 -!- Ilirion has quit [Client Quit] 08:47:14 -!- Nexos is now known as fdel 08:54:22 -!- mfcstein has quit [Quit: Johnstein quit] 09:08:32 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 09:11:39 ??lorc todo 09:11:39 lorc todo[1/4]: Orcish weapons/armor/beogh stuff 09:11:48 !learn add lorc_todo Descriptions for lava orcs 09:11:53 lorc todo[5/5]: Descriptions for lava orcs 09:11:53 !learn add lorc_todo Lava orc monsters 09:11:53 lorc todo[6/6]: Lava orc monsters 09:12:09 !learn add lorc_todo Make sure the descriptions and abilities match 09:12:09 lorc todo[7/7]: Make sure the descriptions and abilities match 09:12:33 -!- ketsa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:13:58 Eronarn: with the abilities themselves being in a flux, describing them is not really a priority 09:14:33 kilobyte: i mean the descriptions on the A! screen - like, when you gain and lose them 09:14:43 they should match when you actually gain or lose them 09:15:03 !learn add lorc_todo Make gaining/losing stoneskin less spammy 09:15:03 lorc todo[8/8]: Make gaining/losing stoneskin less spammy 09:15:05 ah, ok 09:15:15 !learn add lorc_todo Recalibrate tension 09:15:15 lorc todo[9/9]: Recalibrate tension 09:15:37 kilobyte: are you okay with the experimental tension formula going in along with lorcs? (it is a separate commit not in the lorc branch) 09:17:02 current tension sucks so badly that you can't break it by much anyway :p 09:17:45 well, it could make demonic guardian awful. or amazing 09:17:59 hmm right 09:18:18 that is about the only one i'd be concerned about - the other uses of tension do not matter all that much 09:18:42 * kilobyte hands Xom a stick to smack you with. 09:19:03 Eronarn: demoinc guardian swooping in a bunch more at low hp sounds cooler 09:19:06 more seriously, current Xom is in a bad state, too 09:19:18 kilobyte: this is the same xom that we let give 17 levels of scales for years 09:19:19 since it'll be less of the "dude sweeps in to kill all the dudes you can't" thing people don't like 09:19:21 not too worried 09:19:46 elliott: i agree, but the thing is that it will let you hit 5x the current level of tension 09:19:47 Eronarn: only 17? I personally got 84 naked AC once :) 09:19:55 -!- Ashenden has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:04 and that might break some formulas if they were written incorrectly 09:20:16 (tension has always had no upper limit, but i don't know whether formulas respect that) 09:20:21 Eronarn: well what is trunk for if not breaking everything 09:20:26 elliott: squarelos 09:20:37 * kilobyte smacks Eronarn. 09:20:38 surely tension cannot get any more messed up than it is now right 09:20:54 Eronarn: fr: lava orc los turns from diamond to circle to square at high temperature 09:21:08 * kilobyte smacks Eronarn too. 09:21:10 as your senses heighten and your geometry enhancer improves 09:21:16 ha! can't catch me 09:21:29 malign gateway should turn everything into squarelos 09:22:14 Receiving objects: 55% (144851/263037), 38.44 MiB | 56 KiB/s 09:22:16 i sure love this internet 09:22:39 Eronarn: perhaps a random geometry distortion? squarelos1 (Chebyshev), squarelos2 (Minkovsky), rhombuslos (exagerrated nw-se or the other way), etc 09:22:46 hexlos 09:23:12 hex changes individual tiles rather than merely the metric 09:23:13 don't forget non-Euclidean-approximating squarelos 09:23:34 (square is visible iff there exists a shortest (movement) path of length <= radius unobstructed by walls) 09:23:40 kilobyte: you can convert a square grid to a hex grid 09:23:45 all that changes is the connectivity 09:23:47 -!- mfcstein has quit [Quit: Johnstein quit] 09:23:47 (in practice it looks mostly like squarelos except light bends around corners a lot) 09:24:00 the more distant you get from the point at which the swap is started, the more divergent they are 09:24:14 Eronarn: ah, this way. It'd look ugly, but be identical to rhombuslos I mentioned above. 09:24:25 well, there are two ways to do it 09:24:32 you can turn it into a rhombus, or you can bump alternate rows up/down 09:24:48 ideally lava orcs would turn crawl into a top-down isometric RPG about birdwatching 09:24:52 but you can't have everything 09:24:55 either way would be weird and not fun, so we should just switch over to hexlos entirely 09:25:46 also: i would like to buff salamanders along with the lorc patch 09:25:49 I'm afraid metrics that are altered by translations are not a good idea (using the math jargon, ie, adding constants to both x and y of all points) 09:25:53 -!- Ilirion has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:13 give them permanent lorc heat and constriction - combined with reaching, they'd be VERY scary for some builds 09:26:27 giving salamander hide armor lorc heat could be cool, too 09:26:35 -!- Ashenden has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:26:41 constriction and reaching? 09:26:46 (it's much more balanced now - if you run from something and it follows you, it won't get burned) 09:26:51 range 1 constriction, you mean? 09:27:01 kilobyte: it can reach to hit you, but if you move adjacent, it can constrict with its tail 09:27:07 yes, make the worst ending even worse 09:27:07 ah right 09:27:07 clear path to success :( 09:27:15 salamanders are 100% lava nagas 09:27:21 yes, exactly 09:27:23 right now they don't constrict 09:27:31 i feel like constriction has been worked on enough that we can extend it a bit more 09:27:47 and constriction + intense body heat sounds like a fun combination 09:28:13 salamanders don't really work except when they spawn with bows anyway 09:28:20 i don't see how this would help really 09:28:27 give salamanders ice storm 09:28:27 indeed 09:28:53 give them magma bolt 09:29:03 did that ever get shotgunized 09:29:20 -!- Rewans has quit [] 09:29:46 give them extinction 09:30:10 MarvinPA: kind of right 09:31:30 although, submerging means you can't cheese them if they don't get a bow 09:31:57 give them all super-reachy polearms 09:32:00 ten foot pole weapon? 09:32:35 (me out) 09:34:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 09:42:42 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:43:08 -!- mfcstein has quit [Quit: Johnstein quit] 09:43:40 !seen elliptic 09:43:41 I last saw elliptic at Mon Nov 5 15:09:41 2012 UTC (33m 59s ago) saying I thought tiles was already essentially acidrobin on ##crawl. 09:43:41 I last saw elliptic at Mon Nov 5 15:09:41 2012 UTC (34m ago) saying I thought tiles was already essentially acidrobin on ##crawl. 09:43:58 <|amethyst> ??acidrobin 09:43:58 acidrobin[1/2]: A 100% accurate emulation of exploring a dungeon during a hallucinogenic trip. The password is 'robin'. It's probably advisable not to play if you have epilepsy or are prone to motion sickness. 09:44:00 <|amethyst> ??acidrobin[2] 09:44:00 notthepope[1/3]: Likes to streak wins on {AcidRobin}. 09:44:23 <|amethyst> !learn add acidrobin I thought tiles was already essentially acidrobin 09:44:23 acidrobin[3/3]: I thought tiles was already essentially acidrobin 09:44:32 elliott, "Wooden, Scottish Spear" "Twice as long as a man....some men, are longer than others" 09:44:56 s/,// 09:45:45 give them pikes 09:45:48 reaching 3 09:46:00 dpeg: hi 09:47:51 ah shoot, i forgot to push to github 09:48:32 -!- dosman711 is now known as dosman|lunch 09:50:28 -!- User82 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:02 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:54 elliptic: I'd love to hear you on tension. 09:53:10 The current formula is far from perfect, the main current uses are Xom and DS guardian. 09:53:32 Eronarn plans to revamp tension for use with his Lava Orcs. So now is a good time to talk about tension. 09:55:33 I haven't been following recent tension discussions... my past stated thoughts about tension are that it seems like a really difficult mechanic to get right, and it's the main reason I've been dubious about lava orcs 09:56:25 -!- humanwaffle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:57:39 ah, btw, I think you're the one who states that Crawl shouldn't support being low on Health 09:57:44 the reasons why it is hard to get right: we don't have a good measure of monster danger, we don't have a good notion of how danger scales when you have groups of monsters, we don't want the mechanic to be abusable by players 09:58:06 ...I had a number of effects like this (for gods, or also as DS mutations) but I think I have finally understood why it is not a good idea 09:58:30 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:58:42 elliptic: agreed. I'd say this matters least for Xom, more for DG and most for LO (because always present) 09:59:29 i think it's fine if people game tension with LO as long as this encourages them to take more risks than they would otherwise 10:00:19 well, keeping an elephant slug around in open lair levels to be able to move at normal speed does not seem very interesting 10:00:36 I'm not saying it is impossible to come up with a sufficiently good notion of tension to use for stuff like lava orcs, just that it seems like it will be a delicate thing to handle 10:00:58 elliptic: how far off is current DG at the moment, in your opinion? 10:01:14 i kept reading dg as demigod not demonic guardian 10:01:20 i was really confused as to what tension had to do with demigods 10:01:25 sorry 10:01:32 haha, no problem :) just amused me 10:02:50 elliptic: I am asking you because I have a feeling that it might be possible to come up with a better formula. Then we should think for a bit about that. If however we feel that's out of reach, then we're probably better off repairing or removing (sniff) DG as good as we can and not use tension much further. 10:03:10 -!- Tijol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:04:09 I'm not sure about demonic guardian... it's hard to really assess something that shows up so infrequently (only a fraction of Ds games, and only ones that make it to mid/late game) 10:04:28 it hasn't seemed that far off the last couple times I've had it 10:04:32 ok 10:04:46 I think of questions like: should player action speed bea factor of tension? (I.e. are we okay with players using !slow to have a better chance for an effect, then speed themselves. Or to delay use of !haste until the tension effect kicked in.) 10:05:07 The same goes for player health. 10:05:08 -!- Tijol1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:05:44 Of course it's cool to have the game do something because you're at 7/156 HP, but as elliptic says, it's problematic. 10:06:11 tension increasing at really low HP is fine actually I think 10:06:29 note that that'd make demonic guardian "promote" low HP in a way by getting you out of it 10:06:39 the reason why I don't like stuff like PbP and augmentation is that the only way to use them is to let your HP get low 10:06:39 (fsvo getting you out of it anyway) 10:06:55 Eronarn: care to set up a wiki page with both tension formulas side by side, so we can compare and think about it? 10:07:47 elliptic: I see. I think we have established that the other way around is better: you get something, and you lose it at low HP. 10:07:57 I think that the main thing that might help with tension is to make it not immediately affected by stuff... like, use an average of the tension of the last few turns (I think maybe eronarn is already doing somethig like this for lorcs) 10:08:35 but it will take actual testing to have an idea how well we can make tension work 10:08:47 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:11 elliptic: yes, lava orcs do that 10:09:16 it makes it much smoother 10:09:21 -!- Tijol has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09:43 however, i do feel that it should be able to dramatically move up or down following large changes in distance 10:09:48 like teleports, or stair changes 10:09:59 yeah, that makes sense 10:10:12 also, i feel like having a 'background tension' could be good 10:10:19 i don't think tension should ever be 0 in hell, for instance 10:10:21 Eronarn: what does it do? 10:10:23 ah, I see 10:10:58 i was thinking it could possibly use something like the explored tiles stuff for piety 10:12:28 i feel like it should be somewhat tense if you are near unexplored squares, much more tense if you are near monsters, even tenser if you are low on HP, and a boost in levels with passive effects (hell) or difficult escape (pan, abyss) 10:13:12 however, i'd modulate that with depth - so getting shafted into a deep, unexplored level = huge tension. not so much if you go into orc later 10:13:39 ...always tricky to get right 10:13:40 it's hard to come up with a reasonable estimation of monster difficulty, as the difficulty indicators show 10:14:06 ChrisOelmueller: I don't think they're so far off, actually. But there we can be happy with just four tiers. 10:14:08 i feel like we can do a bit better there, but yeah 10:14:12 e.g. any j that is not gastronok hardly ever does anything for tension 10:14:20 whereas eyeballs almost always do it 10:14:21 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:41 i feel like eyeballs should be specialcased if they aren't already 10:15:02 wavering monsters should affect tension of the remaining hostiles, I agree 10:16:04 (wavering = moths, eyes) 10:17:56 -!- elliott has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:19:05 in general I think it's really hard to assess the danger of a group of monsters 10:19:11 sure 10:19:15 since it depends on stuff like dungeon layout too 10:19:42 with DG, it doesn't have to be reliable: okay if you get your demon in one tough spot, but not the next 10:19:43 -!- jotwebe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:45 yeah 10:19:48 same with Xom, not sure about LO 10:20:42 -!- CPeregrine has quit [] 10:21:14 because the effects of tension happen much more frequently with LO, issues with the tension calcuation are much more noticeable 10:21:34 this makes it easier to test tension changes, of course, which is good 10:22:09 perhaps tension should use "how many monsters can attack me right now" as a parameter 10:22:12 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:14 this takes care of some layout 10:22:44 elliptic: how do you feel about making it more tense if melee monsters are near you, rather than far away? 10:22:58 or checking spell range of spellcaster monsters 10:23:19 these things sound reasonable, of course... but everything is becoming more and more complicated 10:23:24 Eronarn: the spellcasting monster is harmless, if it's in a tunnel behind a rat (unless smite or airstrike) -- hence my proposal 10:23:34 well, i was thinking of just precalculating that 10:23:36 i'd be rather afraid of an alich even if it's not in iron shot range 10:23:37 or summoner 10:23:42 rather than doing anything truly complicated 10:23:59 ChrisOelmueller: you would get tension from it, yes, just less tension than if it were closer 10:24:16 -!- User82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:21 say: something on your LOS edge is 50% of the tension of something within melee range 10:24:37 Eronarn: no matter what we do, it will happen that players lead a polka line of monsters through the dungeon if it increases their chance for a good tension effect. 10:24:53 it's also hard to make judgements like whether being surrounded by 8 regular orcs is as dangerous as having a single orc knight next to you 10:25:24 dpeg: this is why i feel that tension works better if it is effects that occur for the duration of tension, rather than effects that happen during it 10:25:25 elliptic: the game can use the actual average damage 10:25:38 because at least then you are balancing the right thing 10:25:44 dpeg: that's... complicated 10:25:54 sure, but would solve the orc issue :) 10:26:19 mobility restriction is definitely a thing - we could take into account how many squares of movement you have 10:26:34 being surrounded totally should probably up tension even if it's chaff 10:27:09 (the nice part about all of this is that if we get enough approximations, each successive one is less of an important contribution) 10:27:28 Hm, what about this: the game simulates a random turn (every monster attacks / casts a spell from it's list), and that gives you a value of how much threat you're under (grammar?). 10:27:34 no, bad idea 10:27:38 turns in crawl are far too random 10:27:53 it'd be good enough for Xom 10:28:02 that executioner could cast pain, or it could melee you for dozens of damage 10:28:08 yes 10:28:09 you'd have to simulate a lot of turns and average, and that starts to use a lot of cpu I'd expect... 10:28:40 I think the goals are different: I just want to make sure that Xom acts (with battle effects) when it's actually worth doing so, and likewise for DG. 10:28:56 also fsim does this and still has a lot of bugs that would be rather bad if they weren't in wizmode only 10:29:07 xom acting with confusion right in the middle of a battle is always great, yes 10:29:12 For that, I don't need a very good tension histograph, I just need to be sure that effects kick in when the situation was a bit dangerous. 10:29:17 -!- Tijol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:32 ChrisOelmueller: do you know what I mean or do you speak out of spite? 10:30:05 I think he was serious probably? it's certainly true that xom confusion shouldn't happen at 0 tension 10:30:06 I am talking about Xom buffs here. 10:30:11 dpeg: xom could keep track of whether a situation has suddenly gotten a lot more tense, or whether tension has changed gradually. this would be a good way to get xom to act, e.g., right after you teleport into a dangerous situation 10:30:50 Eronarn: I don't see what's wrong with Xom not acting at all or any other time during the fight. Sometimes it would happen right away ... as I said, with Xom, we get away with a more coarse model. 10:31:17 dpeg: i mean that there are some effects that are more interesting if they happen when tension would 'spike', even if the spike wouldn't be reflected for some turns with a rolling average 10:31:31 the issue with LO is that you get an effect every time the tension increases sufficiently 10:31:33 like you get tormented for 50% and xom immediately acts, rather than a few turns later summoning something 10:31:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 10:31:47 Eronarn: that is true, but if we're unable to map that properly, then we still get a decent enough Xom with a worse model. 10:32:24 xom/DG do not need as good a tension formula as LO, I think we agree with that (though improvements would still be nice there of course) 10:32:27 elliptic: i did move some of the effects around, fwiw - it's also much harder to gain tension than it was previously 10:32:34 With Xom, the player can and will easily rationalise everything herself: "ah, Xom wants to watch my agony before chiming in." 10:34:15 with jpeg I started discussing that Xom should guaranteed signature gifts (can be mutation, item, ally, gold) reliably -- which means on a slow cycle of its own (so you wouldn't know when you get it, but you'd do eventually, and the first gift should be quick: players should have a reason to go Xom) 10:34:24 but that is for another day, I guess 10:34:24 -!- Tijol1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:17 i feel like xom should probably just plain do more good things 10:36:26 yes, that is why I wondered what ChrisOelmueller meant 10:36:36 in battle, the effects should be more good than bad 10:39:13 does xom have an effect that makes the target explode yet 10:39:21 mhh, unexpected good effects are much less valuable in crawl than unexpected bad effects are terrible 10:39:33 Eronarn: mass inner flame 10:39:35 Eronarn: he has inner flame 10:39:39 not the same 10:39:48 alefury: yes, this is why it has to be skewed 10:39:49 i'm talking disint style explosion of blood and meat everywhere 10:39:51 you mean like disintegrate? 10:40:19 Xom shouts, "April showers bring May flowers!" The hill giant explodes. 10:41:16 -!- Tijol has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:47:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49:22 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 10:56:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:02 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:20 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:05:40 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:40 Eronarn: xom should make things explode into butterflies 11:08:41 instead of chunks 11:08:53 or into elephants 11:09:06 or into chokos 11:09:28 ontoclasm: glitter! 11:09:35 i should add glitter clouds for xom 11:09:40 and confetti 11:09:40 -!- dosman|lunch is now known as dosman711 11:09:45 -!- estrael has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:11:19 -!- Jabberwocky has quit [Client Quit] 11:16:05 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120715100958]] 11:18:53 -!- Jabberwocky has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:21:20 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:37 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:23:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:25:06 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:25:56 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 11:27:42 -!- Jabberwocky has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:32:13 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] 11:33:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:47 -!- Jolly has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:33:47 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:37:08 -!- humanwaffle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:01 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 11:41:47 -!- Ertac has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:01 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:33 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:15 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:55:01 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:13 -!- ophanim1 is now known as ophanim 12:04:32 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 12:04:32 -!- Miron has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:05:30 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 12:06:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:51 -!- horus is now known as Guest29645 12:10:09 -!- Guest29645 has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:50 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:45 -!- Moredread has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:47 -!- whog has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:07 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 12:46:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:46:37 -!- pointsofdata has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:47:02 -!- pointsofdata_ is now known as pointsofdata 12:49:04 -!- Ertac has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:29 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:58 -!- Tijol has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:57:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:11 -!- Timguytiner has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:04:02 hi all. How could x[...]v Crawl warn players if a monster is out-of-depth? IIRC someone here once suggested "This monster looks ${out of place, very out of place} or something like that. Does that work well? 13:04:09 *warn Crawl players 13:05:08 aren't there already "this monster looks dangerous" tags? 13:05:10 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:30 <|amethyst> monster are coloured according to danger, but that's based on your level, not your depth 13:05:48 <|amethyst> s/ster/sters/ 13:05:52 dunno. I just returned to Crawl recently, and am using 0.7.1 (which is what's in Debian stable). Sorry to waste your time. Let me return to ##crawl-users. 13:05:57 <|amethyst> oh 13:06:01 <|amethyst> try a newer version 13:06:04 :) 13:06:09 <|amethyst> that was added in, what, 0.9? 13:06:22 lol debian stable :D 13:06:27 <|amethyst> we're up to 0.11 now, you can get debs from the website I believe 13:06:56 I did see. I don't want to deal with the learning curve until I remember 0.7.1 well first. :) 13:11:44 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:12:02 vimpulse: Hi there! 13:13:30 <|amethyst> vimpulse: do you play tiles or console? 13:15:24 With that nick, we expect vimpulse to play console for life! 13:18:45 DS XL 9, only one mutation: that's just bad luck, right? 13:19:53 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:53 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:20:15 vimpulse: The difficulty there is that it's pretty hard to define "out of depth" with Crawl's monster generation algorithms 13:20:15 dtsund: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:20:15 dtsund: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:20:18 !messages 13:20:18 (1/1) ghallberg said (5d 5h 7m 10s ago): call your mirror image spell mirror image 13:20:18 (1/1) ghallberg said (5d 5h 7m 10s ago): call your mirror image spell mirror image 13:20:20 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:36 solution: rewrite crawl from the ground up 13:21:36 from zot:5 up 13:22:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 13:23:21 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:34 lava orcs should have to take the orb back into the lava 13:27:22 dpeg: Hi! :) 13:28:02 |amethyst: I prefer tiles, but on this machine it's too slow. So I play console instead. Yes, I know I could reconfigure tiles not to be so slow. IIRC I drive tiles almost exclusively using the keyboard. 13:30:18 <|amethyst> you might try webtiles then 13:30:41 <|amethyst> it's not the same as the tiles interface, but is more-or-less-entirely keyboard-driven 13:30:45 <|amethyst> ??webtiles 13:30:46 webtiles[1/3]: You can play with tiles online at {cao} (US; http://webtiles.akrasiac.org), {cdo} (Germany; http://tiles.crawl.develz.org), {csn} (US; http://crawlus.somatika.net:8080/) and {cszo} (Pennsylvania; http://crawl.s-z.org/). Use Chrome 6+, Firefox 6+ or Safari 5 for easiest access. 13:33:52 webtiles is pretty awesome, if you are a coward who hates unicode 13:35:20 i wish console conveyed the same amount of info as easily, though 13:35:41 e.g. telling when an orc is holding a spear is useful info, but a pain to keep track of in console 13:35:59 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:37 only going to be more of a problem as unique weapon features are introduced 13:36:54 i thought about using accents for that. == orc with mace 13:37:02 ColdPie: unicode combining characters 13:37:13 requires a term that supports unicode, though 13:37:24 ColdPie: you can make it an option 13:37:27 like unicode 13:37:35 for people with ancient, crippled, dinosaur terminals 13:37:39 :) 13:37:47 (also, we need 256-col) 13:37:55 IMO we should just list the weapon in the monster list 13:38:03 you do start to run into problems with large glyphs, like Ogres 13:38:06 ColdPie: I suggested that on the forum, but the reaction was hostile. No idea why, I think it'll come. 13:38:11 -!- Tijol has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:19 elliptic: using the weapon glyph? 13:38:25 -!- julian1 is now known as unferth 13:39:05 elliptic: does not really help with four gnolls on the screen 13:39:08 aw, terminal.app doesn't support combining chars it looks like 13:39:21 dpeg: you could split them out by weapon if there is room 13:39:23 <|amethyst> Eronarn: terminal.app doesn't support not sucking 13:39:25 if you did both, it might be reasonable 13:39:30 |amethyst: it is quite dreadful 13:39:31 Eronarn terminal.app is terrible 13:39:35 orc (orcish short sword) 13:39:47 it's hard enough in console to tell the difference between a nearly dead gnoll and a perfectly healthy gnoll 13:40:09 work gave me an option between mac or windows 13:40:13 this one at least isn't putty, but 13:40:21 the monster list doesn't match up with the pane for that, in console, because it contains more information than just the yellow g glyph 13:40:39 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:06 generally the nearly dead gnoll is nearly dead because you've been hitting it 13:41:12 and thus know which one it is 13:41:18 Eronarn: yes, but you still wouldn't know which 'o' or 'g' carries the trident (say). Only that one of them does. 13:41:30 usually monsters don't all appear on screen at the same time 13:41:43 obviously people will still use xv, that is why xv exists 13:42:07 just pointing out that if we had 256 col we could slightly tweak colors of gnolls so that 4 of them have distinct colors 13:42:08 elliptic: unless you've been using tab and they're both next to you 13:42:11 accents idea is definitely impossible with just latin-1. it'd be a neat unicode-only feature, anyway 13:42:25 I have no idea what's wrong with mapping accents to important weapon information (brand, distortion, polearm, say) 13:42:26 Zannick: if you've been using autofight, then you probably don't care about details like that... 13:42:41 dpeg: I have no objection to it as long as it is fully configurable 13:42:42 right. 13:42:44 ColdPie: yes, unicode only 13:42:49 elliptic: sure 13:42:54 U+032B: standing in water 13:43:09 a more realistic example is that members of packs sometimes switch with each other 13:43:10 U+0338 is clearly a polearm 13:43:30 Also, I don't believe that uppercase letter should be too hard. We Germans, for example, have this awesome (hope you can see it :) 13:43:38 clearly a particularly dangerous ogre 13:43:42 oh also you could actually use combining aeiou to label monsters 13:43:42 can't wait to run into bad font and have [0338] displayed over a gnoll :3 13:43:44 that would be cool 13:44:24 ͣg 13:44:32 <|amethyst> dpeg: the problem is with things like ẗ 13:44:40 -!- pelotron has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 13:44:48 dpeg: the problem is that's O-umlaut, while we're talking combining unicode, which would be O + umlaut 13:44:49 <|amethyst> (well, T̈ is more likely) 13:44:56 probably fonts aren't smart enough to shrink the O or raise the dots 13:45:02 oh wait, there is ́ 13:45:21 g, g ́, g ̋ 13:45:53 <|amethyst> two-headed ogres can have e.g. Ở 13:46:03 <|amethyst> Ṏ 13:46:13 <|amethyst> my font renders the second one uglily 13:46:16 that's weird, it works fine when you paste it |amethyst 13:46:36 yeah, go too deep into unicode and you start finding people's fonts suck for it 13:47:08 not to mention expecting terms to render unicode control characters correctly and consistently 13:47:26 anyway it'd be an awesome experiment 13:47:31 yeah 13:47:52 ColdPie: setting my portal glyph to cyrillic millions sign was pretty epic 13:48:01 it made the abyss way more fun 13:48:43 would be cool to have a list (wiki perhaps) where people can collect their unicode replacements... so not everyone has to reinvent the wheel 13:48:50 Eronarn: what's that like? 13:49:04 ҉ , U+0489 13:49:06 I need more fonts for my teeminal... 13:49:10 kewl 13:49:31 ghallberg: cyrillic combining millions reverses the direction of text in some circumstances 13:49:39 :D 13:49:56 dpeg: so the problem is that right now, unicode glyph replacement in rc files only supports one glyph 13:50:07 you can't do char+combining; you can only do combining by itself 13:50:18 <|amethyst> U+E23F UPPERCASE GOATSE 13:50:21 which 'eats' the previous glyph, point shifting everything 13:50:53 so what we'd really want is to make crawl support multiple unicode characters per tile 13:51:02 and after that people can play around with getting it working relatively invisibly 13:51:22 and then we can compile a reasonably widely working set into crawl with some additional logic 13:51:27 <|amethyst> hopefully your libc reports the correct width for combining characters 13:51:32 -!- vimpulse has left ##crawl-dev 13:52:53 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 13:53:02 Eronarn: sounds alright 13:53:21 well, i gather from kilobyte that it would be harder than i just made it sound 13:53:25 even to make it work at all 13:54:01 do you know what would be harder? 13:54:08 then there is the logic for symbol choosing... i think you would want something like expose monster status effects, monster wielded weapon class, monster terrain, etc. in a language the RC file can access 13:54:47 ColdPie: i believe there were some architectural issues with having a >1 glyph symbol, you'd have to ask him for details 13:54:48 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:07 ☃ 13:55:52 ghallberg: ice statue 13:55:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:58 ice beast 13:56:07 !learn add ice_statue ☃ 13:56:08 ice statue[2/2]: ☃ 13:56:16 ice beasts are quadrupeds 13:56:23 sphinx: 😼 13:56:52 Can't see that one :( 13:57:02 yeah neither can i 13:57:13 i actually plan to use the unicode futhark runes in my game :) 13:57:13 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f63c/index.htm 13:57:16 it's gonne be sweeeet 13:57:40 my personal favorite unicode character, though: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f63b/index.htm 13:57:58 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:02 Maybe I should switch to a more reasonable terminal... 14:00:18 I hate having to chose between convenience and customization 14:01:42 -!- Ilirion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:05:23 braile should be useful for.... something 14:05:29 rock piles? 14:05:47 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:41 ghallberg: slime creatures 14:08:48 mm 14:09:37 Just been reading a bit on unicode, I don't see why combining arbitrary letters with arbitrary diacritics should be a principal problems. The fonts will grow, and it should work at some point. 14:09:57 -!- codrus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:13:23 it's an _incredibly_ complex problem for font rendering libraries to solve. we can probably find a situation that works for most setups, but older libraries or older fonts have a tough time with those features 14:14:07 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:16 my coworker implemented right-to-left font support in wine, so i've been hearing a lot about its complexities and library shortfalls :) 14:14:33 ColdPie: sure, but from what I read, even commercial (Windows) fonts seem to support arbitrary diacrit+letter combination, at least more and more. 14:16:52 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:17:58 -!- omnijim has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:20:17 the nice part is that people can just disable it if it doesn't work 14:24:46 yes 14:24:59 -!- kek has quit [Quit: gonna suicide, brb] 14:25:30 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:25:31 I wonder if Crawl console should have a stripped down mode, for blind players. There was a blind player discussing on r.g.r.m once, but when I asked, he said everything would be fine. 14:26:01 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:08 -!- pointsofdata has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:30:46 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:07 -!- knaveightt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:42 -!- CeleryMa_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:21 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:42 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:48:39 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:51:17 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 14:51:49 -!- Domassus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:51:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:20 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 15:02:41 dpeg: Maybe ask epyon/Kornel Kisielewicz about it? 15:02:57 DoomRL apparently has a blind players mode 15:06:57 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:07:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:08:02 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:40 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:28 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 15:11:37 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 15:12:06 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:15:15 -!- unferth has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:16:18 dtsund: ah, thank you 15:24:55 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: out b4 wlan weg] 15:28:32 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:21 -!- SatanicMechanic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:31:57 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:16 mudo (L27 VpAE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2053 failed. (Zig:17) 15:34:39 -!- frogbotherer has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:40 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:40 -!- BirdoPrey_ is now known as BirdoPrey 15:45:32 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:53:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:07 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ben weg] 15:55:09 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 15:57:34 -!- _dd has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:58:43 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:01 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:30 -!- CeleryMan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:03:34 -!- crate_ has quit [] 16:05:51 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:28 -!- dosman711 is now known as dosman711` 16:07:39 -!- [SaD]Omena has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:14 -!- 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seconds] 17:29:15 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:35:36 tile_filter_scaling option makes the HP/MP bars dark (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6365) by galehar 17:35:37 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:35 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:37:13 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:40:55 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:41:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:28 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:42 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:52:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:49 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:46 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 18:12:59 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:31 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:09 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 18:24:51 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:34:47 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:37 -!- Mu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:43 -!- Ertac has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:50 -!- uglyjohn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:40:54 -!- wasd22 has quit [Quit: You slip out of the net!] 18:46:38 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:35 -!- hagb4rd is now known as hagb4rd|outoford 18:59:19 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 19:00:47 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:53 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:30 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:38 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:33 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:37:11 -!- Sapz has quit [] 19:37:15 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 19:44:56 Eronarn: having multiple characters inside a glyph on Crawl's side is just a matter of coding: some work but nothing fundamentally hard 19:45:24 I see little point in having them for a monster glyph, but polearms/whatever would be a good idea 19:45:46 the problem is, support for combining characters in terminals is worse than abysmal 19:49:56 -!- Zyborg has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:23 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 20:05:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 20:10:35 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:13:08 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:13:20 -!- Wark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 20:13:51 Lua script engine extension: item.hands (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6366) by tukkek 20:19:31 kilobyte: maybe i was confusing it with the 256color changes, then 20:19:48 if we can get at least support for defining multiple glyphs, let's do it - i agree that we shouldn't use it for monsters on their own 20:20:09 but it'd make sense for: cloud, halo, weapon, status effects 20:20:19 anything you can see with xv, more or less 20:21:57 -!- Stelpa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:02 ie, not the base monster glyph, but in places we currently have "branding" 20:26:05 right 20:26:19 -!- eb has quit [] 20:26:23 there may be a few exceptions, but we can also just let people do that themselves 20:28:47 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:52 -!- Terrin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:56 -!- Wark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 20:30:11 -!- Wark is now known as WarukuZ 20:36:04 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:25 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 20:40:35 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:38 -!- ajikeshi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:49:47 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:50 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:01:50 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:09 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timeout: 245 seconds] 22:18:08 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:55 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:22 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:43 -!- kek has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:51 -!- Tijol has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:00 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:38:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:18 Several overflow altars (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6367) by Blade 22:45:19 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:11 -!- ZombieChicken has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:17 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:49:53 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:50:19 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0/20120830123745]] 22:54:50 -!- Tally has quit [Quit: Some people spread happiness wherever they go. 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