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00:00:40 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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00:08:47 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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00:24:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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00:48:06 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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01:13:13 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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01:21:19 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
01:21:40 <PleasingFungus> https://twitter.com/crawlcode/status/482045765645131777 https://twitter.com/crawlcode/status/482045929608843267
01:23:12 <Lightli> thank fucking god rock worms are gone
01:23:21 <PleasingFungus> ~invisible rock worms~
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01:28:30 <Bcadren> they've been gone for awhile.
01:34:18 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1724-g0a05dca: Prompt when swapping allies onto zot traps 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a05dcac42b8
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01:38:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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01:46:42 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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02:06:46 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1725-g8450e6c: Clean up some string format code 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8450e6c8d00e
02:06:46 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1726-g804a958: Let godless hill orcs convert to priests with (p) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=804a95838b94
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02:09:47 <Roarke> Hahaha I remember rock worms
02:09:47 <Roarke> Those were the worst
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02:11:05 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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02:19:35 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1726-g804a958 (34)
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03:07:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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03:15:29 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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03:23:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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03:26:58 <Lightli> ??is cdo down
03:26:58 <Sequell> is cdo down[1/1]: CDO has a mirrored disk failure; The webserver is shut down until it's fixed.
03:27:00 <Lightli> rip
03:27:02 <Lightli> stil
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03:38:28 <Roarke> Kind of wanted to know how Discord was doing
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03:38:28 <Roarke> Whether that was going to be addressed
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03:39:45 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
03:39:45 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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03:55:48 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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04:03:55 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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05:00:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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05:55:47 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-1727-g8d4f0ef: Clean up objstat value formatting 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8d4f0ef980dc
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06:00:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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06:23:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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06:31:04 <Napkin> so... anyone willing to test CDO?
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06:43:59 <Bloax> *chirp*
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06:54:38 <Roarke> I mean
06:54:43 <Roarke> crawl-dev is often quiet, right
06:55:12 <Roarke> Is it really necessary
06:55:14 <Roarke> To chirp
06:55:18 <Roarke> At 5 in the morning
06:55:25 <Roarke> (west coast time)
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06:57:48 <Bloax> it is very important to chirp
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06:59:50 <Roarke> Oh.
06:59:51 <Roarke> Okay.
06:59:57 <Roarke> *chirp*
07:00:14 <Roarke> Chirp is one of those words
07:00:17 <Roarke> That both sound silly
07:00:20 <Roarke> And look silly written down
07:05:10 <Bloax> Chirp is a goofy-ass word.
07:05:32 <Bloax> That only rarely can accomplish anything but being a little goofy inquiry.
07:06:03 <Bloax> except with a more fitting word at the end of that sentence
07:06:09 <Bloax> (this is why you sleep)
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08:46:02 <Henzell> sage1234 (L10 MiFi)  (D:8)
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09:38:04 <Cheibriados> azure jelly (12J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 15 | HP: 65-103 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 1212(cold:15-44), 1212(cold:15-44), 12, 12 | 04eats items, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1890 | Sz: small | Int: plant.

09:38:04 <Lasty1> %?? azure jelly
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09:50:23 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1706-g5c27b2e (34)
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09:57:22 <wheals> !crashlog sage1234
09:57:23 <Sequell> 1. sage1234, XL10 MiFi, T:8687 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/sage1234/crash-sage1234-20140626-134601.txt
09:58:03 <wheals> huh, weird
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10:05:45 <wheals> !seen dpeg
10:05:45 <Sequell> I last saw dpeg at Tue Jun 24 20:06:47 2014 UTC (1d 18h 58m 58s ago) saying '|amethyst: he wrote to me that he is saving right now as much as possibl. I understood that this is why the disk swap will happen later, not now.' on ##crawl-dev.
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11:55:48 <PleasingFungus> ??cdo is down
11:55:48 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled cdo_is_down in my learndb.
11:55:51 <PleasingFungus> hm
11:57:04 <PleasingFungus> mantis seems to be up?
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12:07:03 <Lightli> ??is cdo down
12:07:03 <Sequell> is cdo down[1/1]: CDO has a mirrored disk failure; The webserver is shut down until it's fixed.
12:10:06 <PleasingFungus> and yet
12:10:08 <PleasingFungus> hm
12:10:14 <PleasingFungus> someone should probably make a blog post explaining what happened
12:10:31 <PleasingFungus> !learn s is_cdo_down[1 Not especially!
12:10:32 <Sequell> is cdo down[1/1]: Not especially!
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12:34:14 <Kvaak> is chei supposed to give piety for killing stationary monsters?
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12:37:06 <PleasingFungus> I guess it'd depend on how slowly they acted
12:38:42 <Kvaak> well usually chei seems to be more concerned with movement rather than action speed (see nagas)
12:38:52 <PleasingFungus> mm
12:38:54 <PleasingFungus> true
12:39:25 <Kvaak> and in general chei cripples the player's movement speed while leaving action speed intact (rip haste)
12:42:44 <Bloax> it's pretty silly, yes
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13:23:54 <Cheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-1728-g0e1b8fa: Make living lost soul revival more like the undead one. 10(7 minutes ago, 7 files, 37+ 88-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e1b8faa9d18
13:23:56 <wheals> !tell pleasingfungus it seems a little weird that chei protects from torpor snail slow
13:23:56 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
13:23:56 <wheals> !tell pleasingfungus but if it's kept it should probably check you're not under penance
13:23:56 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
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13:25:15 <LexAckson> so...
13:25:27 <LexAckson> is corrosion supposed to make your ac go negative?
13:25:44 <wheals> yep
13:25:49 <LexAckson> okay
13:26:02 <wheals> it doesn't do anything worse than 0 AC
13:26:32 <wheals> but the severity and the duration are linked, so the information isn't totally useless
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13:44:16 <PleasingFungus> !tell wheals Yeah, I don't remember why I did that; it seemed to make sense at the time?
13:44:16 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
13:44:16 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
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14:20:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
14:20:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
14:20:54 <reaverb> Chei (the bot) sure is unstable today..
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14:25:30 <Lightli> PleasingFungus: You mentioned planning to make charms into more circumstancial and strong effects that you don't want to cast in every figh
14:25:32 <Lightli> *fight
14:25:59 <PleasingFungus> ssort of, yes
14:26:00 <PleasingFungus> why?
14:30:24 <Cheibriados> 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1729-g99b9770: Allow torpor snails to slow Chei worshippers (PleasingFungus, wheals) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99b97708a098
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15:14:36 <Lightli> oh
15:14:39 <Lightli> oops
15:14:50 <Lightli> anyways, as I was saying before I got sidetracked, how do you plan to do that?
15:15:06 <Lightli> Ozo's Armour, Stoneskin, Haste...
15:15:23 <ontoclasm> Lightli: probably similarly to new swiftness, i suppose
15:15:39 <Lightli> oh
15:15:57 <Lightli> so ozo's and stoneskin make you have less AC after they wear off and haste slows you down like berserk?
15:16:19 <ontoclasm> well, maybe not exactly, but something like that is what i would imagine
15:16:34 <Lightli> probably not the latter since that's a bit too close to berserk
15:16:34 <ontoclasm> or they have other downsides; e.g. stoneskin could slow you or something
15:16:53 <Lightli> ozo's could give you rF- maybe
15:16:57 <ontoclasm> point being that keeping them on all the time is detrimental
15:17:06 <Lightli> oh
15:17:13 <Lightli> in that case haste is technically fine because contam
15:19:28 <Lightli> is there a list of charms spells?
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15:20:05 <ontoclasm> i think the wiki has a list
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15:20:46 <Lightli> nm learndb had one
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15:36:18 <Lightli> so how should you devs nerf ozos
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15:39:27 <rockygargoyle> Can we talk about ZotDef?
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15:49:18 <PleasingFungus> rockygargoyle: what do you want to say about it?
15:49:36 <rockygargoyle> It has issues
15:50:02 <rockygargoyle> for exemple, the monsters don't follow the orb
15:50:22 <rockygargoyle> They follow you, and depending on your position
15:50:35 <rockygargoyle> They won't attack you
15:50:46 <PleasingFungus> neat
15:51:11 <rockygargoyle> They only attack you if they have smiting-targeted abilities (airstrike, smiting)
15:51:20 <rockygargoyle> Or if you're in their way
15:52:29 <PleasingFungus> They only attack you if you're in their way, but they follow you?
15:52:35 <PleasingFungus> So wouldn't that mean you're always in their way?
15:52:40 <rockygargoyle> Another problem is, if you zot-teleport into one of the areas that are only acessible throught teleport, the game crashes
15:52:55 <rockygargoyle> No, I mean they always try to be in your LOS
15:53:16 <rockygargoyle> Even if you aren't near the orb
15:54:30 <rockygargoyle> So, you can be behind all the enemies and kill them without retaliation, unless the enemies have smite-targeted attacks
15:55:10 <rockygargoyle> Or troll earth mages, which for some reason attack you regardless of where you are (unlike the others)
15:55:13 <PleasingFungus> neat
15:56:07 <rockygargoyle> This monster behavior isn't intended, is it?
15:56:16 <MarvinPA> should report those on mantis if they're not there already
15:56:22 <MarvinPA> i think the crash might actually be
15:56:49 <MarvinPA> but i don't think the pathfinding to the player rather than the orb is
15:57:53 <rockygargoyle> Well, you can win a game without using any of the zot abilities other than zot-teleport
15:58:21 <rockygargoyle> Just attacking the creatures from behind and avoiding smiters
15:58:53 <rockygargoyle> I think monsters should patchfind the orb, not the player, for these reasons
15:59:14 <MarvinPA> right, that's why i said it should be reported on mantis if it's not already :P
15:59:27 <rockygargoyle> Yes, I will
15:59:35 <MarvinPA> definitely a bug and not how it used to work
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15:59:49 <PleasingFungus> mm
15:59:51 <rockygargoyle> The problem is, I'm on my phone right now
15:59:56 <rockygargoyle> So I can't report
16:00:01 <PleasingFungus> did we ever decide whether we wanted to keep zot defense around?
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16:00:17 <PleasingFungus> I know reaverb played a decent amount of it after our last discussion
16:00:22 <rockygargoyle> I talked to reaver recently
16:00:36 <rockygargoyle> He told me you were talking about removing it
16:00:39 <rockygargoyle> Iirc
16:00:59 <PleasingFungus> yeah, we were
16:01:07 <rockygargoyle> I, personally think it's fun, and the idea is great
16:01:22 <rockygargoyle> But it has a lot of issues
16:03:13 <Lightli> yeah
16:03:39 <Lightli> probably would help if those issues were ironed out :v
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16:04:48 <rockygargoyle> was zotdef patchfinding always like this?
16:04:55 <rockygargoyle> Since the first versions?
16:05:02 <MarvinPA> no
16:05:26 <rockygargoyle> wouldn't using the code from earlier versions solve it?
16:05:38 <MarvinPA> i very much doubt it is as simple as that
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16:06:18 <MarvinPA> since zotdef code is tied in with regular code in a lot of places
16:06:33 <rockygargoyle> Hmm
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16:06:54 <rockygargoyle> is removal a possibility?
16:07:08 <Cheibriados> Monsters in Zotdef don't pathfind to the orb 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8738 by MarvinPA
16:07:32 <rockygargoyle> Thanks for reporting, MarvinPa
16:07:37 <MarvinPA> no problem
16:08:56 <MarvinPA> removal is possible, i think at the moment barely anyone has actually played it recently or looked at the code to see how broken it is/how easy to fix the brokenness is
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16:09:49 <|amethyst> !lg * recent zotdef
16:09:50 <Sequell> 3871. davidgn the Magician (L1 HEWz), rotted away (a kobold) in Zot (Scenario I: Hall of Zot : zotvault) on 2014-06-26 20:23:17, with 22 points after 210 turns and 0:01:28.
16:09:51 <|amethyst> !lg * recent sprint
16:09:52 <Sequell> 88516. heyboots the Firebug (L1 DEFE of Vehumet), slain by a jackal in Sprint (Sprint VII: "The Pits") on 2014-06-26 21:08:58, with 7 points after 313 turns and 0:01:20.
16:09:53 <|amethyst> !lg * recent
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16:09:54 <Sequell> 776384. klavious the Blocker (L15 GrBe of Trog), blasted by Mara (nerve-wracking pain) on Elf:3 on 2014-06-26 21:08:47, with 85277 points after 28498 turns and 3:19:43.
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16:10:14 <|amethyst> !lg * recent zotdef x=cdist(name)
16:10:14 <Sequell> 3871 games for * (recent zotdef): cdist(name)=764
16:10:19 <|amethyst> !lg * recent x=cdist(name)
16:10:20 <Sequell> 776384 games for * (recent): cdist(name)=13804
16:10:22 <rockygargoyle> If it won't bother you, can you start a game in ZotDef, activate wizard mode and create a random creature and a troll earth mage
16:10:28 <rockygargoyle> To see their behavior?
16:10:41 <PleasingFungus> !lg * recent won x=cdist(name)
16:10:45 <Sequell> 5310 games for * (recent won): cdist(name)=1263
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16:12:18 <MarvinPA> i'm guessing the weirdness is caused by some of the recentish reworking of a whole bunch of monster ai code
16:12:53 <MarvinPA> also it looks like the monsters that do attack you directly are those that know the dig spell, which i guess is consistent with dig doing weird things with monster ai generally
16:13:16 <|amethyst> ah, yes, it's dig
16:13:22 <|amethyst> orc wizard spells:dig does the same thing
16:13:29 <rockygargoyle> That makes sense
16:14:02 <|amethyst> so maybe something in the dig AI code is using the foe rather than target?
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16:14:29 <|amethyst> aha
16:14:36 <|amethyst> see _set_mons_move_dir
16:14:46 <|amethyst> *delta = you.pos() - mons->pos()
16:14:59 <|amethyst> shoudl be something like   *delta = mons->target - mons->pos();
16:15:14 <|amethyst> oh
16:15:22 <|amethyst> I guess target could be a waypoint for pathing though
16:15:52 <rockygargoyle> Ah, I forgot to add
16:16:15 <rockygargoyle> High power disaster area crashes the game too
16:16:37 <rockygargoyle> It makes lava tiles, which blocks enemy movement
16:16:55 <rockygargoyle> And break their patchfind
16:17:04 <|amethyst> this would be a problem for rain too
16:17:08 <|amethyst> except that Fedhas is banned
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16:17:39 <|amethyst> I wonder if you can manage the same with the phial
16:17:46 <rockygargoyle> No
16:17:57 <rockygargoyle> Make water doesn't bug it either
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16:18:31 <rockygargoyle> Monsters can walk throught shallow water
16:18:38 <rockygargoyle> But not throught lava
16:18:39 <|amethyst> oh, right
16:18:46 <|amethyst> phial doesn't leave deep water, forgot that
16:19:07 <rockygargoyle> And, if you put water around the stairs
16:19:19 <rockygargoyle> Sharks respawn and crash
16:19:30 <rockygargoyle> Because they also can't patchfind
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16:19:47 <|amethyst> yeah, ZD should prevent water monsters from spawning
16:20:09 <|amethyst> not sure how to best handle the upheaval/disaster area case
16:20:22 <|amethyst> also I bet tomb card would do it
16:20:35 <MarvinPA> there's a list of banned cards for zotdef, i think tomb is probably one
16:20:37 <rockygargoyle> Neme is disabled
16:20:44 <rockygargoyle> Exploration piety
16:20:50 <|amethyst> ah
16:20:52 <MarvinPA> and rain clouds also have sprint/zotdef special-casing to not make deep water
16:21:04 <|amethyst> it would be kind of intrusive to make the pathfinding in zotdef look at temporary terrain modifications
16:21:19 <|amethyst> could special case upheaval etc
16:21:36 <MarvinPA> it's sort of ugly special-casing so many individual types of terrain modification though :P
16:21:37 <|amethyst> or maybe it makes more sense to special case the temporary terrain change stuff instead
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16:22:08 <MarvinPA> ah yeah, that would maybe be better
16:22:46 <|amethyst> I guess rain isn't temporary so that still needs a special case
16:23:14 <rockygargoyle> Are you talking about rain card?
16:23:16 <MarvinPA> i think rain from clouds is temporary, but rain from the fedhas ability isn't?
16:23:25 <|amethyst> ah
16:23:27 <rockygargoyle> Yes
16:23:39 <|amethyst> I was thinking robe of clouds
16:23:47 <rockygargoyle> Rain from things like disc of storm is temporary
16:24:02 <rockygargoyle> But fedhas water is permanent
16:24:10 <MarvinPA> i think the robe of clouds water did used to be permanent, but was changed when temporary terrain modifications became a thing
16:24:18 <|amethyst> yeah
16:24:35 <|amethyst> I managed to nearly block off my Zot:5 chamber entrance that way once
16:25:02 <MarvinPA> heh
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16:25:18 <|amethyst> (wearing clouds for rElec, and healing just outside the entrance
16:25:34 <|amethyst> fortunately the robe gives invocable flight :)
16:25:39 <|amethyst> s/inv/ev/
16:26:09 <rockygargoyle> Also, allies like zombies won't "listen" to you, they will just try to go on the orb's direction
16:26:39 <rockygargoyle> when you have the orb, the monsters will behave properly
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16:27:08 <rockygargoyle> You "are" the orb, so they will attack you
16:28:37 <rockygargoyle> maybe if you make monsters act like you have the orb all times, the issue would be solved?
16:29:48 <MarvinPA> well the intended behaviour is that they go directly for the orb at all times when it's on the floor, they shouldn't try and attack you if you're way off elsewhere
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16:30:24 <alefury> I think the shatter description should mention that it sucks against flying enemies
16:30:30 <alefury> and slimes
16:31:05 <alefury> it mentions being good against brittle stuff, which is pretty irrelevant, while the flying and slime thing actually matters
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16:37:32 <Cheibriados> Reimplement and re-enable layout_overlappig_boxes 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8739 by infiniplex
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17:01:20 <Henzell> doubtofbuddha (L16 VpEn)  (Spider:1)
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17:19:32 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-1729-g99b9770 (34)
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17:28:15 <Cheibriados> Tiles that should not be animated are animated 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8740 by Galefury
17:28:52 <Kvaak> formicid ghosts don't apparently have stasis
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17:47:32 <|amethyst> #8740 was introduced by:
17:47:34 <|amethyst> %git 9442d74
17:47:34 <Cheibriados> 07ontoclasm02 * 0.15-a0-1710-g9442d74: Hopefully fix shoals coastlines & ink 10(25 hours ago, 12 files, 179+ 184-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9442d7426d22
17:47:58 <PleasingFungus> ahh
17:48:00 <PleasingFungus> I had a feeling
17:56:21 <|amethyst> doors are also getting the wrong flavour
17:56:53 <|amethyst> not animating, but all DNGN_VGATE_{OPEN,CLOSED}_DOWN
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18:04:04 <|amethyst> ah
18:05:16 <|amethyst> tile_apply_animations refers to TILE_DNGN_LAVA
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18:08:32 <edlothiol> yeah, the upper bound for that needs to be changed to TILE_FLOOR_MAX
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18:10:12 <|amethyst> I don't get how this tells whether the index is in tile_feat_type or tile_floor_type
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18:11:02 <|amethyst> oh, I see
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18:13:11 <reaverb> 17:28:52 <Kvaak> formicid ghosts don't apparently have stasis
18:13:40 <reaverb> Kvaak: mantis is back up now, it's possible to file bug reports.
18:13:41 <wheals> !tell Napkin i recently updated my profile to get lots of mantis emails, but i'm not getting any; might this be related to the outage?
18:13:45 <Sequell> wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
18:13:45 <Kvaak> well my build is a couple of days old but I couldn't find anything about it on mantis
18:13:45 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let napkin know.
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18:13:55 <Cheibriados> 03drachereborn02 {reaverb} 07[smithgod_rebased] * 0.15-a0-1719-gba44ba2: Remove gold costs 10(3 days ago, 4 files, 149+ 196-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba44ba2a6423
18:13:55 <Cheibriados> 03drachereborn02 {reaverb} 07[smithgod_rebased] * 0.15-a0-1720-g4fca846: Remove an unused function prototype 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fca8460461a
18:13:57 <Kvaak> I'll report it
18:13:57 <wheals> !messages
18:13:57 <Sequell> (1/1) PleasingFungus said (4h 29m 36s ago): Yeah, I don't remember why I did that; it seemed to make sense at the time?
18:13:58 <PleasingFungus> (and then reaverb removed it)
18:14:04 <PleasingFungus> (the chei torpor snail thing)
18:14:08 <wheals> do formicid monsters even have stasis?
18:14:12 <PleasingFungus> yes, actually
18:14:15 <PleasingFungus> it checks genus
18:14:26 <PleasingFungus> this was relevant when I was setting up torpor snails
18:14:48 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: Hmm, how was it relevant?
18:14:59 <reaverb> (I wonder how VS monsters etc. are handled)
18:15:05 <PleasingFungus> they aren't really, iirc
18:15:36 <reaverb> Since monsters can't wear a cloak and main body armour I would assume octopodes can't wear 8 rings <_<
18:15:43 <PleasingFungus> formicid monster stasis() was relevant because torpor snails now give the slow effect, which is blocked by stasis, so I looked around at the various definitions of stasis() to check & make sure they did what I wanted them to.
18:15:54 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Ah.
18:15:56 <PleasingFungus> turned out at least one of them didn't!
18:16:03 <reaverb> Hmm, which one?
18:16:07 <PleasingFungus> iirc a stasis() vs check_stasis() distinction
18:16:11 <PleasingFungus> for players?
18:16:16 <reaverb> Hmm.
18:16:39 <|amethyst> edlothiol:  yes, that fixes it.  Thanks!
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18:17:26 <PleasingFungus> !source check_stasis
18:17:26 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l6459
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18:17:36 <PleasingFungus> ah, yeah, it's here
18:18:09 <PleasingFungus> ...man, that code is very weird
18:18:30 <reaverb> if(!statis()) I imagine?
18:18:43 <reaverb> !source statis
18:18:44 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/glwrapper-ogl.cc;hb=HEAD#l434
18:19:00 <Cheibriados> Formicid ghosts don't have stasis. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8741 by Kvaak
18:19:04 <reaverb> !source stasis
18:19:05 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l6451
18:19:15 <PleasingFungus> there is no reason to check the genus in both ::stasis() and ::check_stasis()
18:19:24 <|amethyst> yes
18:19:27 <wheals> wait
18:19:28 <|amethyst> it's to prevent the message
18:19:33 <wheals> you mean there's duplication???
18:19:39 <PleasingFungus> wheals: hard to believe.......
18:19:43 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: oh, I see
18:19:55 <PleasingFungus> that is
18:20:01 <PleasingFungus> unintuitive
18:20:18 <reaverb> Also it's kind of bad both stasis() and check_stasis() both exist.
18:20:42 <wheals> i'm kind of surprised it bothers to id jewellery when armour brands don't even when it's obvious
18:20:57 <|amethyst> Could get rid of check_stasis()  but then you have to add that "looks uneasy" message everywhere that called it
18:21:27 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm, maybe check_stasis() just needs a rename.
18:21:40 <PleasingFungus> imho it needs a comment
18:22:03 <reaverb> PleaingFungus: Get your comment down to 5 words, and make that the new function name <_< >_>
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18:22:20 <wheals> Blasphemy! Comments do not exist!
18:22:46 <|amethyst> hm
18:23:15 <|amethyst> it's also weird that check_stasis doesn't use its calc_unid argument
18:23:43 <reaverb> Hmm, yes that is weird.
18:23:56 <PleasingFungus> it seems pretty obvious where it's supposed to be used
18:24:16 -!- Guest31216 is now known as mumi
18:24:27 <PleasingFungus> it's just... not
18:24:46 <wheals> i'm not sure when it would be used, though
18:25:08 <|amethyst> there is exactly one call to monster::check_stasis that passes the second argument (default is true)
18:25:14 <|amethyst> in monster::no_tele
18:25:44 <PleasingFungus> wheals: the if () block at the bottom of the func? but without that, it's literally just checking stasis()
18:25:48 <PleasingFungus> which I guess is maybe your point
18:26:07 <wheals> yeah, that's what i meant
18:26:28 <|amethyst> huh?
18:26:42 <wheals> probably calc_unid would make sense to be "true" for determining whether you should cancel an action that stasis would block on that monster
18:27:20 <wheals> but in that case stasis() would work as well since you shouldn't id the amulet from that
18:27:31 <wheals> so silent would be true too anyway
18:27:50 <|amethyst> hm
18:27:56 <|amethyst> looks like it's never actually relevant
18:28:18 <|amethyst> monster::no_tele has that calc_unid param so that it and the player version can override the same virtual function
18:28:59 <|amethyst> but the only calls to no_tele that pass false for calc_unid are to you.no_tele
18:29:30 <wheals> probably a lot of calc_unid checks aren't necessary anymore anyway...
18:30:05 <|amethyst> probably very few if any are necessary
18:30:25 <|amethyst> I guess things like monster resistances
18:30:25 <reaverb> Wait, The Fo thing in check_status should just call stasis(false,false)
18:30:32 <PleasingFungus> when dpeg brings the id game back in renewed glory, then you'll be sorry!
18:31:09 <PleasingFungus> three different types of id scrolls. hidden fake properties. stone-kicking.
18:31:10 <reaverb> (what does the calc_unid paramter do again?)
18:31:15 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: well, nothing
18:31:23 <reaverb> Hmm, I should learn the Doxygen scheme.
18:31:31 <|amethyst> reaverb:  it means to count unidentified amulets
18:31:31 <wheals> checks whether unid'd items should be included
18:31:41 <reaverb> |amethyst: ah, Ok.
18:31:53 <wheals> so in the past, if you had an unid'd ring of rF, it should count for damage but not for %
18:32:07 <wheals> but now you can't have one, so
18:32:16 <reaverb> So s/if�(mons_genus(type)�==燤ONS_FORMICID)/if (statis(false, false)/ in check_statis seems good.
18:32:19 <|amethyst> monsters still can though
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18:37:27 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1730-g078e12a: Don't animate stone walls etc. (edlothiol, #8740) 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=078e12a44c75
18:37:51 <nicolae-> why did nicolae_quartered_pools_super make it on the bad crawl code twitter :(
18:38:11 <reaverb> Does the spell animate wall come in the same book as summon corner?
18:38:15 <nicolae-> it hurts, down in my soul
18:38:24 <wheals> animate wall creates wall mimics
18:38:31 <reaverb> nicolae-: The substituation is a little...incomprehensible.
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18:39:50 <nicolae-> ah, it's not that bad, it's for making the inverted symmetrical pattern in each quarter
18:41:33 <reaverb> Oh, hmm, once you say that it actually becomes pretty clear what the vault does...
18:41:46 <nicolae-> it helps if you've ever seen it in person
18:42:16 <nicolae-> it just makes it so the parts that are floor in two of the quarters, are water in the other two
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18:42:34 <nicolae-> but mixing them up
18:44:06 <reaverb> Hmm, using /tele and teleport other on a monster checks MR before checking stasis.
18:44:12 <reaverb> Which is pretty bizzare.
18:44:36 <reaverb> (Like my misspelling of "bizarre")
18:44:37 <wheals> i think EH does too
18:44:55 <reaverb> Does stasis stop sleeping?
18:45:07 <reaverb> or is it for monster which cannot sleep?
18:45:19 <wheals> i mean, it checks whether it was slept recently after MR
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18:45:26 <reaverb> wheals: Ah.
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18:45:40 <nicolae-> does it matter much if MR is checked before stasis?
18:46:06 <wheals> well, not much
18:46:09 <reaverb> nicolae-: Well it's confusing since I'm pretty sure it's the opposite for players....
18:46:13 <reaverb> (The messages)
18:46:39 <nicolae-> ah, gotcha
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18:47:41 <reaverb> Hmm, this all feels like putting effort into something which doesn't matter that much <_< >_>
18:48:02 <bh> hai
18:48:12 <bh> !tell bh is sequell working?
18:48:12 <Sequell> bh: OK, I'll let bh know.
18:49:10 <bh> !seen napkin
18:49:11 <Sequell> bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
18:49:11 <Sequell> I last saw Napkin at Thu Jun 26 18:46:59 2014 UTC (5h 2m 11s ago) joining the channel.
18:49:13 <bh> !seen dpeg
18:49:14 <Sequell> I last saw dpeg at Thu Jun 26 18:46:59 2014 UTC (5h 2m 14s ago) joining the channel.
18:49:29 <reaverb> bh: Hmm, looking for something in particular?
18:49:42 <reaverb> crawl.develez etc. are back up, no sure about CDO
18:49:48 <reaverb> ??is_CDO_down
18:49:48 <Sequell> is cdo down[1/1]: Not especially!
18:49:54 <reaverb> Hmm.
18:52:45 <Cheibriados> 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1731-g108b699: Reduce code duplication 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=108b6996ad89
18:52:47 <alefury> what happened?
18:52:52 <reaverb> alefury: CDO was down for a while.
18:53:01 <alefury> i know that
18:53:21 <reaverb> alefury: Oh, then what does "what happened?" mean?
18:53:32 <alefury> why was CDO down for a while?
18:53:39 <wheals> some double disk failure
18:53:44 <alefury> eww
18:54:01 <reaverb> It's like a regular disk failure, except you thought you were safe!
18:54:10 <alefury> everything still there, or not?
18:54:18 <reaverb> Bascially everything has been recovered.
18:54:24 <alefury> nice
18:54:40 <wheals> !lg * cdo 1 --ttyrec
18:54:41 <Sequell> No keyword '--ttyrec'
18:54:43 <wheals> !lg * cdo 1 -ttyrec
18:54:44 <reaverb> There's some obscure survey plug-in something that was corrupted but nobody's mentioned noticing its gone.
18:54:44 <Sequell> 1/957557. Eifeltrampel, XL5 TrBe, T:2930: Can't find ttyrec!
18:54:51 <wheals> !lg * cdo 0.7 -ttyrec
18:54:52 <reaverb> Oh, yeah, ttyrecs went missing.
18:54:54 <Sequell> 24274. Elynae, XL1 MuAM, T:129: http://termcast.develz.org/ttyrecs/crawl.develz.org/ttyrec/Elynae/2011-02-01.21:31:56.ttyrec.bz2
18:54:57 <reaverb> or something I think?
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18:58:32 <alefury> :(
18:58:45 <alefury> oh well, still pretty good
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18:59:55 <alefury> Btw, I just won a Ds after not playing for a while, and I really liked the changes in trunk
19:00:20 <alefury> RMsl/DMsl is pretty bad, other than that I liked pretty much everything
19:00:44 <reaverb> Hmm, what trunk changes?
19:01:02 <alefury> well, I didn't play for a while, so basically all of them
19:01:19 <reaverb> What a helpful comment :D
19:01:28 <reaverb> Any big changes specifically? Or just all the little ones?
19:01:37 <alefury> mostly item destruction and weights, and that other thing
19:01:45 <reaverb> saprovore?
19:02:03 <reaverb> Oh, not changes dealing with Ds specifically.
19:02:12 <reaverb> That other thing is probably corrosion then.
19:02:20 <alefury> i liked that too
19:02:28 <alefury> I think I meant the food reduction
19:02:38 <reaverb> Ah.
19:03:31 <reaverb> Hmm, Wow, chunkless has no conflicts on merging with master.
19:03:37 <reaverb> %git chunkless
19:03:38 <Cheibriados> 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-1409-ga68aaa3: Remove the chance of monsters dropping beef jerky 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a68aaa340f64
19:03:43 <alefury> Well, I got black mark, which is nice, so the negative energy facet is no longer super super shitty, that was pretty cool
19:04:03 <reaverb> Yes I find it funny it was inspired by the monster Ds.
19:04:05 <alefury> But I don't think that's that new
19:04:19 <alefury> Yeah, looking forward to checking those out, I only played a 3 rune game
19:04:43 <alefury> I got monstrous and don't like that so much
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19:04:59 <alefury> Oh, summons timing out on killing the summoner is really really good
19:05:21 <reaverb> Ha, that's kind of an old change but yes it's great.
19:05:46 <alefury> I think I didn't really play for a year or so
19:05:56 <alefury> So lots of new things for me :D
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19:06:52 <reaverb> There were some funny bugs with that. Like orcs band timing out when their priest was killed etc.
19:09:49 <alefury> I got a lot of use out of evocations and misc items, that was pretty cool
19:10:47 <reaverb> Yes, I've heard a couple people say Evocations might be a bit too powerful now.
19:11:18 <alefury> I found an early rod of inacc, that contributed quite a bit
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19:12:05 <alefury> I should have used my evokers more I guess, but my char was pretty strong so I didn't
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19:12:42 <alefury> Slaying was a bit too good IMO, but maybe that was due to my items getting upgraded to the higher plus
19:12:45 <reaverb> Yeah I've found elemental evokers are easy to understimate.
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19:14:07 <alefury> Mostly RMsl/DMsl were bad
19:14:37 <reaverb> The facet being bad?
19:14:39 <alefury> I'm not sure it's worse than before, but it's pretty bad
19:14:45 <alefury> Huh? The spells
19:15:11 <reaverb> Oh, yes, is DMsl on the same system as RMsl?
19:15:17 <alefury> Yeah
19:15:21 <reaverb> Ok.
19:16:13 <alefury> That you can just cast them whenever turns them kind of into a passive bonus
19:16:22 <alefury> Much moreso than other charms
19:16:28 <reaverb> Well they were already like that.
19:16:51 <reaverb> Except nobody actually did it because it involved pressing zb every time they expired.
19:17:59 <alefury> Well, at least for DMsl you needed to be able to cast it fairly consistently, now you can put on wizardry
19:18:40 <reaverb> Hmm.
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19:19:44 <alefury> Like I said, I'm not sure it's any worse than before, at least now it's convenient
19:20:23 <alefury> And I cant think of a really good improvement
19:20:49 <alefury> But it sure would be nice if those spells were better
19:21:21 <reaverb> I've thoughten about putting the RMsl effect on an amulet and removing the spell.
19:21:26 <reaverb> But that might be too powerful.
19:21:28 <alefury> It already is
19:21:32 <reaverb> RMsl could be nerfed though.
19:21:33 <alefury> ??amulet of the air
19:21:33 <Sequell> amulet of the air[1/1]: the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
19:21:40 <reaverb> alefury: On a normal amulet type.
19:21:45 <alefury> ahh
19:21:52 <alefury> Just change Inacc?
19:21:54 <nicolae-> give it a smaller effect than existing rmsl, maybe
19:22:10 <alefury> rmsl doesn't even do that much, it's just good because it's free
19:22:11 <reaverb> nicolae_: Yes that's what "RMsl could be nerfed" means.
19:22:13 <alefury> ??rmsl
19:22:13 <nicolae-> maybe change it to an evocable
19:22:14 <Sequell> repel missiles[1/2]: A level 2 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *to* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles).
19:22:32 <alefury> well okay, it does more than I thought
19:22:39 <reaverb> nicolae-: Well if it's evocable then that sort of removes the point of changing it <_<
19:22:45 <reaverb> since you still have to recast it constantly.
19:23:13 <gammafunk> if it's on jewelry, you'll have basically the same problem if it's swappable
19:23:18 <alefury> Just put it on inacc
19:23:20 <nicolae-> hmmm, point! but then, if it was a limited use evocable, you wouldn't be able to keep using it
19:24:14 <alefury> Still not great I guess, youd want to swap it out against melee enemies
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19:24:33 <gammafunk> yeah, it'd need to somehow buildup over time I guess, but that also could be awkard
19:24:37 <gammafunk> *awkward
19:24:53 <alefury> Wand of reflection could be cool
19:25:20 <reaverb> gammafunk: Is it more problematic than =rF?
19:25:32 <reaverb> (the theretical "RMsl
19:25:33 <reaverb> )
19:25:40 <gammafunk> reaverb: yes, since compare how often fire attacks occur compared to how often ranged attacks occur
19:25:47 <alefury> Zap to get RMsl and a chance to reflect beams/bolts
19:26:06 <reaverb> gammafunk: Because ranged attack happen more often then fire attack?
19:26:11 <reaverb> fire attacks.
19:26:18 <reaverb> so you have to swap is more often? Hmm.
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19:27:17 <alefury> if it's an amulet with no downside it's not so bad because most amulets are only useful in a few situations
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19:27:27 <alefury> thats why people used to wear conservation
19:28:05 <reaverb> I think building up over time would be an ok solution.
19:28:13 <alefury> letting it build up over 20 turns or so would be fine I think
19:28:15 <alefury> maybe even 10
19:28:24 <reaverb> But I would rather have it do something on swap like "faith
19:28:26 <reaverb> or such.
19:28:41 <Henzell> chofbri (L27 GrMo)  (Crypt:2)
19:28:43 <reaverb> Maybe just hit you for some elec damage on equip?
19:28:47 <reaverb> !crash chofbri
19:28:48 <Sequell> 4. chofbri, XL19 GrMo, T:41466 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/chofbri/crash-chofbri-20140625-094955.txt
19:29:09 <reaverb> I guess that would be hard not to insta-kill people who wear it unID'd early game...
19:29:41 <alefury> you could make it do 2dXL
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19:29:45 <alefury> or something like that
19:30:33 <reaverb> alefury: Hmm, that seem theoretically exploitable (not sure how actually exploitable)
19:31:06 <bh> are we adding an imp species?
19:31:25 <reaverb> bh: Not to my knoweldge.
19:31:46 <reaverb> Why do you ask?
19:31:54 <gammafunk> I'm not sure that doing damage is the best idea, but if it does do damage upon unwield, it shouldn't be elec
19:32:02 <gammafunk> it should be like "airstrike"
19:32:04 <gammafunk> unresistable
19:32:11 <bh> reaverb: tileschat rumors
19:32:23 <reaverb> On wield airstrike damage would probably be best iff it was damage.
19:32:26 <PleasingFungus> oh
19:32:31 <PleasingFungus> grunt was talking about adding impitis
19:32:34 <reaverb> bh: rumors <_<
19:32:34 <PleasingFungus> but he's always talking about that
19:32:39 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: He already did.
19:32:44 <PleasingFungus> whaa.....
19:32:47 <bh> uh?
19:32:48 <reaverb> shoutitis is now impititis.
19:32:54 <PleasingFungus> do you mean tourette's
19:32:55 <alefury> gammafunk: on wield, not on unwield
19:32:55 <reaverb> that happened a while back didn't it?
19:32:57 <PleasingFungus> because that's different
19:32:57 <bh> huh?
19:33:01 <gammafunk> It should be upon unequip I think
19:33:01 <PleasingFungus> afaik
19:33:01 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: It is?
19:33:16 <PleasingFungus> impitis is the silly imp/pan lord messages
19:33:16 <PleasingFungus> afaik
19:33:32 <alefury> gammafunk: how about both?
19:33:46 <reaverb> gammafunk: For damage definetly not. You can swap it in for a fight, and then rest to full hp, take it off, and then keep it around for swapping again.
19:33:52 <gammafunk> well for equip, you're wearing the thing to prevent damage and the first thing it does it give you damage
19:33:57 <reaverb> So on unwield doesn't solve any problems.
19:34:04 <reaverb> gammafunk: The idea is to remove swapping it.
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19:34:18 <reaverb> So you put it on out of combat and rest to full.
19:34:26 <gammafunk> reaverb: see gspirit
19:34:28 <reaverb> And Then explore with your RMsl amulet already on.
19:34:35 <gammafunk> again, I don't think damage is a very good way to go anyhow
19:34:42 <reaverb> Yeah, I sort of agree.
19:34:56 <gammafunk> gspirit already works this way; you take it off and lose your mp
19:34:57 <PleasingFungus> this would be a pretty hard nerf to ae
19:34:59 <alefury> reaverb: actually if it only does damage on wield, you always want to swap to it after combat, rest up, and swap away if you need something else. Not terrible I guess
19:35:03 <PleasingFungus> --ae
19:35:18 <PleasingFungus> alefury: wasn't the idea that it would also still be an amulet of inacc?
19:35:35 <reaverb> alefury: Oh, hmm.
19:35:50 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: That's possible but not necessary.
19:35:55 <alefury> PleasingFungus: not sure, maybe having no downsides to actually wearing it would be better
19:36:05 <reaverb> Not sure how good a RMsl + inacc amulet would be.
19:36:25 <gammafunk> well the current one is amazing
19:36:27 <alefury> pretty good for melee dudes with some slaying
19:36:33 <gammafunk> but that's because inacc has little effect now
19:36:35 <alefury> not so sure about conjurations
19:36:38 <gammafunk> ??amulet_of_air
19:36:38 <Sequell> amulet of the air[1/1]: the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
19:36:39 <reaverb> Also I think encouraging players to wear inacc regularly  is a bad idea because missing a monster 5 times in a row isn't fun.
19:36:43 <PleasingFungus> it has effect in the early game
19:36:49 <PleasingFungus> which is when the id game is relevant, etc
19:36:53 <PleasingFungus> and the rmsl is also less useful then
19:36:54 <|amethyst> shouldn't inacc be changed to reduce damage now?
19:37:02 <PleasingFungus> I don't think it needs to be
19:37:09 <|amethyst> since we got rid of the difference between accuracy and damage
19:37:09 <PleasingFungus> I mean, it's not -slay
19:37:17 <PleasingFungus> it affects spells
19:37:23 <PleasingFungus> and weapons still have base dam/acc
19:37:25 <PleasingFungus> and should
19:37:31 <reaverb> I think that might be good, not sure. It's true inacc isn't slay so it doesn't really need symmetry.
19:37:40 <PleasingFungus> since those are numbers that are relevant at low skill
19:37:41 <reaverb> (The inacc -> lowered damage)
19:37:57 <alefury> I'm tired, good night :)
19:38:04 <reaverb> Good night!
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19:40:13 <reaverb> Hmm, I don't understand this zonfiy.lua crash at all.
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19:43:28 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1732-gc305059: Illuminate weapon/armour glow code 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c30505934977
19:43:42 <|amethyst> reaverb:  looks like infinite or at least too-deep recursion
19:44:01 <reaverb> |amethyst: Well that call is in a for loop.
19:44:26 <reaverb> (line 54)
19:45:18 <|amethyst> yes, but the dlua stack trace is showing over 1400 active recursive calls
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19:45:39 <reaverb> Oh, hmm.
19:46:42 <reaverb> Oh, yes, there is recurrsion in that function
19:46:43 <|amethyst> and that map has only 581 non-wall tiles
19:52:04 <Kvaak> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8697 was lost soul behaviour changed recently? I just downloaded the latest trunk build and deep elf death mages still cause this
19:52:15 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: I'm reporting you to the pun NSA
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19:52:25 <PleasingFungus> nooooo
19:52:39 <reaverb> Kvaak:
19:52:42 <reaverb> %git :/lost soul
19:52:42 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1728-g0e1b8fa: Make living lost soul revival more like the undead one. 10(7 hours ago, 7 files, 37+ 88-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e1b8faa9d18
19:52:52 <PleasingFungus> Kvaak: probably your server hasn't been rebuilt since that change
19:53:25 <PleasingFungus> oh, 'downloaded'. hm. idk how the offline builds work
19:53:25 <reaverb> Oh, yes, misunderstood the question.
19:53:27 <Kvaak> weird, I checked gitorious too and didn't find any recent changes to lost souls
19:53:40 <Kvaak> oh well
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19:53:59 <reaverb> I think offline builds or either nightly or whenever somebody gets around to doing them, not sure which.
19:54:14 <reaverb> Either way a change pushed 7 hours ago probably wouldn't be in them.
19:54:14 <|amethyst> what did you download exactly?
19:54:25 <|amethyst> windows binaries?
19:54:43 <Kvaak> yeah, and I just realized they were last updated on the 23rd
19:55:18 <Kvaak> oh derp, there it is right on the frontpage on gitorious
19:55:23 <Kvaak> I blame sleep deprivation
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19:58:49 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1733-gc591b79: Rebuild Shatter's description (alefury) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c591b795fd51
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19:59:15 <|amethyst> hm
19:59:28 <|amethyst> CAO hasn't collected any core dumps since 20 June :/
20:00:57 -!- Morik has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20:01:47 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Is there any reason not to also mention which creatuers are vulrenabe to it?
20:02:16 <reaverb> I guess maybe not becasue shatter kills most things without vulrenabilitty anyway.
20:03:37 <PleasingFungus> pretty much
20:05:09 * Grunt shouts at PleasingFungus, "Quit, thou tasty snack!"
20:05:16 -!- Morik has quit [Client Quit]
20:05:19 <PleasingFungus> :)
20:06:00 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev
20:06:01 <Grunt> The only part of impitis we don't have right now is using the demonic taunts for it.
20:06:09 <Grunt> (clearly todo: make demonspawn shouts use those taunts)
20:06:21 <PleasingFungus> clearly!!!
20:06:24 <Kvaak> Quit, thou tasty snack!
20:06:36 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: So what exactly is impitis?
20:06:49 <reaverb> err, Grunt: So what exactly is etc. etc.
20:07:05 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev
20:07:09 <PleasingFungus> nrook: noob
20:07:30 <nrook> rude
20:08:29 <Grunt> reaverb: You are aware of the current implementation of shoutitis?
20:08:35 <reaverb> Yes.
20:08:54 <Grunt> reaverb: "impitis" is that with using demonic taunts instead of plain "You shout at the foo!"
20:09:03 <reaverb> Grunt: Ah.
20:09:08 <Grunt> There was a tavern thread about this a while ago (in fact, it's what inspired the shoutitis tweak).
20:09:12 <PleasingFungus> %git 10cfb32cb67a2438832e2425b3a73eb5078203b6
20:09:12 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1561-g10cfb32: Make a hit message less buggy. 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=10cfb32cb67a
20:09:20 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus a BUGGY hit message
20:09:21 <Sequell> Sending a BUGGY hit message to PleasingFungus.
20:09:22 <reaverb> So its just a flavor change.
20:09:23 <PleasingFungus> ha
20:10:40 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:12:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:12:30 <|amethyst> hm
20:12:46 <|amethyst> should we rename the Fire Magic title?
20:12:53 <|amethyst> !lg * title=firebug
20:12:54 <Sequell> 98066. DocMerlin the Firebug (L1 KoFE), slain by a kobold (a +0 short sword) on D:1 on 2014-06-26 23:35:51, with 4 points after 225 turns and 0:02:10.
20:13:31 <reaverb> |amethyst: I don't mind if it changes but I do not see why it needs changing
20:13:36 <Grunt> "bug"
20:13:42 <|amethyst> it contains the string "bug"
20:13:45 <reaverb> ah, hmm, yes maybe.
20:13:57 <|amethyst> Still won't prevent Skybugg
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20:15:31 <PleasingFungus> %git 61669e1ba5a89de3d3748a1f5863d656aaa353f2
20:15:31 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-1607-g61669e1: Adjust deck of wonders contents 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61669e1ba5a8
20:15:51 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Lookin for anything in particular?
20:15:59 <PleasingFungus> just writing up the changelog
20:16:05 <reaverb> ah.
20:16:43 <reaverb> The sublimation of blood thing still hasn't been implemented.
20:18:02 <PleasingFungus> I have confidence that it will someday occur.
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20:18:33 <reaverb> I do too! But I'm not writing about chunkless in the changelog :d
20:18:35 <reaverb> :D
20:18:47 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:18:55 <PleasingFungus> :)
20:19:13 <Grunt> !send reaverb changes
20:19:13 <Sequell> Sending changes to reaverb.
20:19:18 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus more changes
20:19:18 <Sequell> Sending more changes to PleasingFungus.
20:20:13 <PleasingFungus> noooo
20:20:43 <Grunt> PleasingFungus is being crushed by all the changes.
20:21:32 <PleasingFungus> %git 4eb87e29c610c5040604c4a76dc87cf937802960
20:21:37 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1649-g4eb87e2: Allow rings of slaying to be up to +8. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4eb87e29c610
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20:26:40 <PleasingFungus> huh, it looks like that change improved the average ring of slaying, not just the cap.
20:26:48 <PleasingFungus> by... +1.
20:26:53 <PleasingFungus> So, not overwhelming.
20:27:18 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1734-g6df916d: Correct an article. 10(27 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6df916d868ea
20:27:20 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus an average +1 slaying
20:27:20 <Sequell> Sending an average +1 slaying to PleasingFungus.
20:27:20 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Well ring of slaying were already strong options.
20:27:21 * PleasingFungus slays Grunt!!!!!
20:27:24 <|amethyst> the 'like a bug' thing reminded me of that
20:27:28 * Grunt appears unharmed.
20:27:44 * Grunt catches the helpless PleasingFungus completely off guard! Grunt squashes PleasingFungus like an ant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:27:45 <reaverb> Although maybe the changes to slaying make that point moot.
20:28:02 * PleasingFungus feels buggy
20:28:12 <Grunt> PleasingFungus is now a BUGGY thing.
20:28:27 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: well, slaying used to be generated in a different way that made it less likely that you'd get e.g. a ring of slaying +1.
20:28:31 <reaverb> I've thoughten about letting AC and EV also be really rarely +8 and just removing Shaloin and Robustness, I'm not sure if that comes from a misunderstanding tof theProbabilities.
20:28:35 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Hmm.
20:29:05 <Eronarn> keep shaolin and robustness; just make them do something else too
20:29:23 <Grunt> (merge them???)
20:29:29 <Grunt> (ring of Ultimate Defence)
20:29:31 <Eronarn> robustness should be +HP def.
20:29:44 <reaverb> Like the amulet of vitality?
20:29:45 <Patashu> '<reaverb> I've thoughten about letting AC and EV also be really rarely +8 and just removing Shaloin and Robustness, I'm not sure if that comes from a misunderstanding tof theProbabilities.' I don't see the need for this
20:29:55 <Eronarn> Patashu: octopode buff
20:30:10 <PleasingFungus> ??ring of vitality
20:30:10 <Sequell> ring of vitality[1/1]: A ring of regeneration that gives +15 HP.
20:30:13 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: ^
20:30:31 <nrook> robustness should give DD damage shaving obv
20:30:33 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: Oh, it's  a ring.
20:30:48 <PleasingFungus> nooo
20:30:50 <PleasingFungus> so much damage shaving
20:30:52 <reaverb> Patashu: I don't see the need for there to be 2 unrandarts when we could just generate normal rings at high enchants :D
20:31:00 * Grunt shaves the yak!!!!!!!!!!!
20:31:01 <Patashu> reaverb: it's a power creep thing
20:31:05 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: do you remember the conversation we had the other day
20:31:07 <Patashu> reaverb: a lot of unrandarts could become normal ego properties
20:31:24 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: I used the word "need" because Patashu used it.
20:31:35 <PleasingFungus> that is a reason to chide him, not to imitate him!
20:31:44 <PleasingFungus> you are a bad influence, patashu.
20:31:49 <PleasingFungus> leading a promising young dev into bad habits.
20:32:05 <Patashu> isn't reaverb a really old dev?
20:32:07 <nrook> power creep assumes reaverb would botch the probabilities and make the effects appear more often than the associated unrandarts do
20:32:25 <nrook> I don't think that's a safe assumption, but maybe you know something I don't =p
20:32:25 <Patashu> nrook: do we currently have the tools to reason about something like that?
20:32:31 <reaverb> Patashu: No, I've been a dev like a few months.
20:32:39 <reaverb> Patashu: Also we have objstat now!!!!
20:32:44 <PleasingFungus> I don't think objstat dues
20:32:46 <Patashu> !!!
20:32:46 <PleasingFungus> *does that
20:32:47 <nrook> I notice you haven't re-added the reaver background yet
20:32:49 <nrook> wtf
20:32:49 <reaverb> so yes we doe have the tools to reason about that.
20:32:53 <Grunt> (power creep: the guy who minmaxes and spends way too much time figuring out "optimal" play)
20:32:53 <PleasingFungus> ??food nsa[2
20:32:54 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled food_nsa[2] in my learndb.
20:32:57 <PleasingFungus> huh
20:33:03 <PleasingFungus> where'd it go
20:33:07 <Patashu> that's not what power creep is
20:33:12 <reaverb> nrook: I actually really hope the reaver background isn't added back because it would probably greatly confuse me.
20:33:18 <Grunt> Patashu: shush, let me joke in peace <_<
20:33:27 <Patashu> power creep is what you get when new content is in some ways strictly better than old content to make it appear worth using
20:33:27 <PleasingFungus> ah, foudn it
20:33:31 <Patashu> then you do it again, and again, and again, and again...
20:33:41 <Grunt> Patashu eviscerates the joke!!!
20:33:47 <reaverb> nrook: It was much worse when my nick was just "reaver" and things like tengu reavers pinged me.
20:33:55 <Patashu> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh
20:33:56 <nrook> so that's why you changed it
20:33:57 <Patashu> reaverb is reaver
20:33:59 <Patashu> my god
20:34:00 <Grunt> !send reaverb a raven reaver
20:34:01 <Sequell> Sending a raven reaver to reaverb.
20:34:06 <PleasingFungus> hm. I am apparently totally wrong
20:34:11 <reaverb> nrook: Also I couldn't register "reaver"
20:34:11 <PleasingFungus> itemstat totally does that
20:34:13 <PleasingFungus> neat
20:34:15 <reaverb> with freenode.
20:34:15 <nrook> I assumed you were just being oppressed by freenode somehow, like 78291
20:34:24 <nrook> oh, you were being oppressed
20:34:50 <reaverb> nrook: Heh, yes there were multiple reasons "reaver" wasn't really a good nick.
20:35:33 <reaverb> Patashu: Oh, you didn't know I was reaver on the Tavern?
20:35:52 <nrook> git feature request: commit description shortcut for "the latest commit on this branch not by me"
20:36:03 <Patashu> no lol
20:36:08 <reaverb> I mention it in my Tavern signiture.
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20:38:59 <nrook> somebody name a nice, well-coded and stylish source file in crawl
20:39:30 <reaverb> nrook: asg.cc maybe?
20:39:31 <Grunt> beam.cc
20:39:34 * Grunt flees in terror.
20:40:01 <Grunt> 1learn add crawlcode beam.cc
20:40:01 <PleasingFungus> well, asg is short
20:40:22 <|amethyst> the lack of an assert in get_uint32 isn't so great there
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20:40:46 <|amethyst> I guess it's that way for speed?
20:40:46 <nrook> hmm, I was more looking for one with nice comprehensive comments so I could copy their style
20:40:49 <nrook> but, there aren't any like that =p
20:41:03 <reaverb> nrook: Maybe learn the Doxygen style?
20:41:29 <|amethyst> bless.cc maybe
20:41:30 <gammafunk> Yeah I wasn't sure how to summarize artp stuff for objstat; I'm not sure what kind of summary would be meaningful
20:41:42 <|amethyst> it's new and has comments on nearly every function
20:41:50 <nrook> oh that is good, thanks
20:42:00 <PleasingFungus> git blame bless.cc for a good time :)
20:42:06 <reaverb> |amethyst: Remember a while back when I learned speed doesn't really matter for the randomness code <_<
20:42:19 <nrook> correct me if I'm wrong here
20:42:24 <reaverb> Maybe an ASSERT() would be good there. Not sure where you wanted to add it.
20:42:25 <nrook> but I was under the impression asserts don't run in opt mode :p
20:42:32 <gammafunk> similar problem with spell schools and spells, but I think I'll move on to actually working on chunkless some more
20:42:35 <|amethyst> reaverb:  return asg_rng[generator].get_uint32()
20:42:37 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: whatcha plannin'?
20:42:58 <|amethyst> reaverb:  should first  ASSERT(generator >= 0); ASSERT(generator < ARRAYSZ(asg_rng));
20:43:01 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: well, just come up with a nice system for translating the nutrition we give to how much permafood to drop
20:43:15 <gammafunk> looking at the stats kind of quickly
20:43:22 <PleasingFungus> aight
20:43:25 <gammafunk> the nutrition available actually increases as you go deeper
20:43:27 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm.
20:43:51 <gammafunk> which is not something that we have to preserve per se, but it's probably relevant as long as spells/abilities have hunger costs
20:44:53 <|amethyst> also, random2 and ui_random should have a single backend
20:45:02 <|amethyst> since they differ only by one character
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20:45:37 <PleasingFungus> ....that is quite the departure message
20:45:50 <reaverb> Yes it is, I'm going to bet it's a referance to something.
20:46:20 <PleasingFungus> apparently it's a quote from one of the developers of the elder scrolls games
20:47:06 <reaverb> |amethyst: Yes, that seems good.
20:47:08 <gammafunk> seems that you get about 1 meat rations worth of nutrition per level of D scaling up to about 2 by d:15
20:47:14 <gammafunk> from permafood
20:48:17 <reaverb> gammafunk: Hmm, "1 meat ration per floor" was my guess for around how much it would turn out too.
20:48:35 <reaverb> It's what the chunkless version I first pushed had roughly.
20:49:53 <reaverb> |amethyst: Are you going to handle the ui_random random2 thing or should I?
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20:50:56 <gammafunk> reaverb: but that's permafood only
20:51:16 <|amethyst> reaverb:  I'm on it
20:51:22 <reaverb> gammafunk: Not sure what you mean by that.
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20:51:26 <reaverb> |amethyst: Ok.
20:51:36 <gammafunk> for nutrition for monsters, you get about 3.5 per floor on D:1 scaling up to about 12 on D:15
20:51:45 <reaverb> gammafunk: Hmm.
20:51:50 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  oh, here's some fun code for @crawlcode:  while (!(m_lfsr = get_uint32()));
20:52:03 <gammafunk> 3.5 meat rations of nutrition, I mean
20:52:04 <reaverb> gammafunk: that's very interesting.
20:52:08 <gammafunk> of course you won't eat all of that
20:52:11 <gammafunk> so we shouldn't make that much
20:52:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:   "did I miss a 'do' a few lines up?"  no
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20:52:30 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: yeah, that file is short
20:52:33 <gammafunk> maybe half of that monster nutrition is a starting point
20:52:39 <PleasingFungus> but it's very dense with #crawlcode material
20:52:40 -!- Morik has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20:53:02 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Which file?
20:53:05 <gammafunk> so keep the about 1 meat ration per floor and possibly have a depth-scaling component of like 2-6 additioal
20:53:14 <|amethyst> asg.cc
20:53:17 <|amethyst> most of it isn't so bad
20:53:20 <reaverb> ah.
20:53:22 <PleasingFungus> the main problem is
20:53:24 <PleasingFungus> the variable names
20:53:26 <|amethyst> I mean, yeah, there are magic numbers everywhere
20:53:27 <PleasingFungus> were created by mathematicians
20:53:51 <|amethyst> what's wrong with m_lfsr ?
20:54:02 <PleasingFungus> what indeed
20:54:03 <|amethyst> surely you wouldn't prefer m_linear_feedback_shift_register ?
20:54:14 <|amethyst> m_exclusive_or_shift
20:54:36 <PleasingFungus> I would accept m_linear_feeback_shift_reg
20:54:40 <PleasingFungus> *feedback
20:54:51 <gammafunk> really long variable names become such a drag though
20:54:52 <PleasingFungus> m_xor_shift
20:54:55 <gammafunk> yeah, I guess use a short var name, but comment it
20:55:12 <|amethyst> who knows what a linear feedback shift register is that doesn't know the abbreviation "LFSR"?
20:55:13 <reaverb> Hmm, What does m_
20:55:18 <PleasingFungus> to be fair, I don't know what that is
20:55:19 <|amethyst> "member"
20:55:40 <reaverb> ah, sounds like the m_ could be removed then?
20:55:41 <PleasingFungus> I mean, I can guess
20:55:57 <gammafunk> |amethyst brings that pragmatic programming perspective
20:55:59 <gammafunk> PPP
20:56:10 <PleasingFungus> ha ha, you said "pee pee"
20:56:12 <PleasingFungus> "pee"
20:56:12 <gammafunk> also a good var name
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20:56:20 <gammafunk> pee_pee_pee
20:56:24 <PleasingFungus> oh dear
20:56:25 <|amethyst> LFSRThat said, I don't know what mwcm and mwcc are
20:56:28 <|amethyst> s/LFSR//
20:57:07 <gammafunk> every time I happen to glance at some like video code or anything that's really heavy with algorithms and calculations
20:57:12 <gammafunk> the variable names are always like that
20:57:28 <PleasingFungus> yep
20:57:31 <PleasingFungus> mathematicians
20:57:43 <gammafunk> I don't think they're necessarilly mathematicians
20:57:54 <gammafunk> just if you do that stuff a lot, you have a ton of vars and don't want to deal with 22-char var names
20:58:10 <nrook> that's because they all have the implicit comment: // for documentation of these variables and functions, see N. Rand and J. Dom, "Matrix Transformations", 2008
20:58:17 <PleasingFungus> ^
20:58:30 <|amethyst> typedef uint32_t unsigned_32_bit_integer;
20:58:35 <gammafunk> right, trying to document everything in your var name seems like it'd end up being a hassle
20:58:38 <Patashu> in sufficiently mathematical algorithms, it's not necessarily the case that all variables will HAVE a physical meaning
20:59:00 <reaverb> Hmm, maybe it's also that algorithm implementations normally aren't changed regularly?
20:59:08 <nrook> if you're in an IDE the difference between a 2-character var and a 25-character var is minimal
20:59:25 <nrook> and I say that as somebody who thinks long var names are dumb in short functions
20:59:44 <gammafunk> yeah, but you'll still end up typing the thing even in an IDE
20:59:46 <|amethyst> how does an IDE help?
20:59:53 <|amethyst> I mean, sure it saves typing
20:59:54 <nrook> it autocompletes it for you after the first time
21:00:00 <gammafunk> but there's also indent
21:00:01 <|amethyst> but I don't think typing is necessarily the problem
21:00:36 <PleasingFungus> huh
21:00:39 <PleasingFungus> kind of a quiet week and a half
21:00:53 <PleasingFungus> lotta bugfixes and internal changes
21:01:07 <PleasingFungus> and two new monsters
21:01:14 <gammafunk> everyone is still processing torpor slugs
21:01:21 <gammafunk> trying to grasp all the implications
21:01:22 <PleasingFungus> wait, no, ghost crab was the week before. so one new monster.
21:01:30 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: a little slow to come to terms with them, then?
21:02:18 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: there's been a ton of accusations and recriminations over them; people are really slugging it out
21:02:30 <|amethyst> quiet is good
21:02:38 <|amethyst> maybe it's time for a freeze?
21:02:38 <PleasingFungus> man. if torpor snails got removed, after all the work I put into them... really, I'd just be crushed
21:02:47 <|amethyst> feature freeze I mean
21:02:55 <nrook> bug freeze
21:02:57 <reaverb> |amethyst: Well it's still another month until August.
21:03:01 <Patashu> are you really going to release 0.15 before range combat is fixed?
21:03:07 <gammafunk> I think it'd certainly be like rubbing salt in your wounds
21:03:07 <PleasingFungus> oh yeah, we should do that
21:03:10 <PleasingFungus> and rebalance consumables
21:03:16 <PleasingFungus> but that wouldn't be a new feature, that'd be a balance change
21:03:28 <|amethyst> reaverb:  and if we're adding new features until July 31 we'll never get things balanced and debugged :)
21:03:41 <PleasingFungus> mm. this means new lethal infusion won't make it into 0.15 :(
21:03:44 <PleasingFungus> or boulder form
21:03:45 <PleasingFungus> or orb ghosts
21:03:48 <PleasingFungus> ah well
21:04:26 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm, I had the vague impression it would be release in late August, if early August yeah a feature freeze would be good sometime in the next couple weeks.
21:04:29 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus ORB ghosts
21:04:30 <Sequell> Sending ORB ghosts to PleasingFungus.
21:04:33 <|amethyst> the real question is, which things that are already in trunk won't make it into 0.15
21:04:39 -!- PsiRedEye22mobil has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
21:04:45 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: I would just pick one of those and try to get it into 0.15.
21:04:53 <gammafunk> I think chunkless def. will not make it
21:05:03 <PleasingFungus> chunkless isn't in trunk
21:05:03 <reaverb> That's not in Trunk :D
21:05:07 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: o/
21:05:15 <reaverb> Yes it's not going to make it.
21:05:15 <gammafunk> Oh I thought he cared about those not already in
21:05:24 <reaverb> gammafunk: ?
21:05:25 <gammafunk> I mean there's nothing I can think of
21:05:28 <nrook> what about squarelos
21:05:32 <gammafunk> haha
21:05:38 <nrook> someday....!
21:05:38 <PleasingFungus> squarelos is a 0.17 feature
21:05:39 <eb> nice try
21:05:44 <PleasingFungus> along with mnoleg as the guardian of the elf rune
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21:05:47 <PleasingFungus> please try to keep up
21:05:50 <gammafunk> there's not really anything in trunk that's in any kind of great flux
21:06:04 <PleasingFungus> is gozag stable for 0.15, then?
21:06:12 <PleasingFungus> I know a lot of people are still dissatisfied with his bribery
21:06:12 <gammafunk> ah, that might be a good example
21:06:21 <gammafunk> Qaz seems ok right now
21:06:23 <PleasingFungus> likewise nem, I guess. I really need to do a nem game
21:06:28 <gammafunk> oh yeah, Nem
21:06:29 <gammafunk> geeze
21:06:33 <PleasingFungus> beogh seems kind of okay from the game I've been running with him
21:06:35 <PleasingFungus> so that's good
21:06:37 <PleasingFungus> I'm having fun
21:06:51 <reaverb> I'm not sure how well the forlorn mutation works, it's kind of hard to get feedback on such a mutation because they are rare.
21:06:52 <gammafunk> yes, but that was a less substantive change, or less impactful one at least
21:07:40 <gammafunk> I think the scaling of that mutation was off? minmay was saying how it's like way too much anti-faith maybe
21:08:03 <gammafunk> at least at a one level mutation
21:08:04 <Patashu> ??forlorn
21:08:05 <Sequell> forlorn[1/1]: New mutation in 0.15. Equivalent to -1 amulets of faith at 0 piety (so 33% less piety gain), and -2.5 amulets of faith at 200 piety (so 83% less piety gain). This is bad.
21:08:12 <PleasingFungus> mm. Do we want to set a release date, then?
21:08:17 <PleasingFungus> That'd be a cool thing to include in the update post
21:08:24 <reaverb> gammafunk: I think I might have just been talking to bad players who couldn't tell how badly the antifaith was effecting them <_<
21:08:39 <reaverb> Also it effects a god like Qazlal a lot more than, say, Vehumet.
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21:10:56 <Basil> ??deck of battle
21:10:57 <Sequell> deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {elixir card}, {battlelust card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card}, {mercenary card}.
21:11:21 <Basil> !learn edit deck_of_battle s/{merc.*//
21:11:22 <Sequell> deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {elixir card}, {battlelust card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card},
21:11:39 <gammafunk> funny that deck of punishment has a subtype like an actual deck
21:11:49 <nrook> anybody know where the "abilities fail before they're targeted" bug is?
21:11:51 <gammafunk> that'd be a fun one to find on the dungeon floor
21:12:12 <nrook> pro-tip: stack 4, doesn't it have The Abyss in it?
21:12:12 <Grunt> nrook: it's... a bit tricky to explain, but all the relevant code bits are in ability.cc
21:12:22 <reaverb> nrook: crate submitted it, that should help you find it on mantis.
21:12:24 <Basil> !learn edit deck_of_battle s/{battlelust card}, //
21:12:25 <Sequell> deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {elixir card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card},
21:12:28 <reaverb> Really abilities should probably be classes.
21:12:45 <nrook> hahaha
21:12:51 <nrook> I was doing that, actually
21:12:57 <reaverb> nrook: Oh, yeah, that's nice.
21:12:59 <PleasingFungus> yesss
21:13:04 <PleasingFungus> be sure to rebase often :)
21:13:08 <nrook> before I decided I wasn't going to do difficult refactors at home, when I do them at work =p =p =p
21:13:10 <nrook> I might still do it tho
21:13:16 <gammafunk> oh, so abilities will be like DK, Be, He then?
21:13:18 <PleasingFungus> do it!!!!
21:13:22 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: re
21:13:23 <PleasingFungus> obv
21:13:24 <Basil> !learn edit deck_of_battle s/$/{dowsing card}.
21:13:24 <Sequell> deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {elixir card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card}, {dowsing card}.
21:13:25 <Grunt> nrook: basically some abilities have prerequisite checks that should be done in _check_ability_possible() that aren't (instead happening in _do_ability)
21:13:29 <nrook> it's like the most boring thing in the universe
21:13:32 <PleasingFungus> Basil: you are a hero
21:13:34 <nrook> yeah grunt I know, I implemented it already :p
21:13:36 <Grunt> nrook: oh
21:13:37 <Grunt> nrook: dang
21:13:40 <nrook> proof of concept anyway
21:13:41 <PleasingFungus> he meant the mantis bug???
21:13:43 <PleasingFungus> I think
21:13:48 <nrook> yes I did
21:13:59 <nrook> reaverb is a great amazing person for reminding me where it is
21:14:00 <Basil> !learn edit deck_of_battle s/Cards: /Cards: {potion card},
21:14:01 <Sequell> deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {potion card},{elixir card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card}, {dowsing card}.
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21:14:12 <gammafunk> Basil: have you done a new_nemelex game yet?
21:14:23 <Basil> I only played demorobin to lair
21:14:29 <Basil> piety seemed sort of low
21:14:32 <reaverb> nrook: Do these abilities includes card abilties? what about spells?
21:14:39 <Basil> and I didn't use the abilities at all
21:14:42 <gammafunk> I shouldn't be forced to do any more nemelex games
21:14:49 <gammafunk> !lg reaverb god=nemelex won
21:14:50 <Sequell> No games for reaverb (god=nemelex won).
21:14:54 <reaverb> nrook: No pressure though >_>
21:14:54 <Grunt> !send Nemelex gammafunk
21:14:55 <Sequell> Sending gammafunk to Nemelex.
21:14:58 <gammafunk> I have a nomination
21:15:04 <gammafunk> !lg . god=nemelex won
21:15:04 <Sequell> 1. gammafunk the Farming Talismancer (L27 OpTm of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-12-28 02:43:15, with 8501657 points after 219610 turns and 2d+10:40:42.
21:15:07 <Basil> Anyway, perhaps consider swapping dowsing out of Battle
21:15:10 <nrook> no card abilities, no spells. everything in _do_ability, which includes I believe all god abilities and evocable
21:15:10 <Grunt> !lg . nemelex won
21:15:11 <Sequell> 1. SGrunt the Imperceptible (L26 SpEn of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-06-03 00:11:13, with 1274053 points after 116298 turns and 7:40:31.
21:15:13 <gammafunk> actually 2 since I did one on jump-attack
21:15:15 <Grunt> gammafunk: o/
21:15:23 <gammafunk> \o
21:15:27 <nrook> but... right now it's literally just Imprison, bc I want to get the simple structural refactor into trunk before continuning
21:15:36 <reaverb> nrook: Hmm, good.
21:15:43 <reaverb> Everything else can be added later.
21:15:46 <Basil> and do gammafunk's thing with Metamorphosis or swap it with something?
21:15:55 <nrook> and, because it's a pain in the ass to do a close-reading of code and see how late I can move the fail check
21:15:59 <gammafunk> I think MarvinPA didn't like that
21:16:10 <gammafunk> my set UC-to-max-weapon-skill if that's what you mean
21:16:14 <Basil> yes
21:16:29 -!- mineral is now known as read
21:16:30 <gammafunk> I just don't like that it's kind of a "waste a turn and annoy you with interface" card
21:16:32 <Basil> In any case the card as it is is probably worse than a dead draw for most people
21:16:41 <gammafunk> waste two turns actually
21:16:45 <Basil> 2.5
21:16:46 <reaverb> nrook: Hmm, what kind of archeteture would you be using?
21:16:52 <reaverb> for this ability thing.
21:16:54 <gammafunk> 2.5?
21:17:07 <Basil> cancel form is 1.5 I think
21:17:10 <gammafunk> oh wow
21:17:13 <PleasingFungus> fwiw I also didn't like the uc thing
21:17:16 <PleasingFungus> :)
21:17:25 <PleasingFungus> clearly make it temporarily make all weapon skills cross-train with uc
21:17:30 <PleasingFungus> new cross-training system!!!!
21:17:57 <Basil> that still seems sort of lame
21:18:04 <Basil> 20 M&F->10 UC
21:18:06 <gammafunk> it'd honestly be better if it was just a more rare card and did badforms
21:18:07 <nrook> I think my idea was significantly smaller than anything you're imagining; I was using the complex architecture known as "hashmap of function pointers keyed by ability enum"
21:18:07 <Basil> Or hm
21:18:23 <gammafunk> well badforms is too severe of course
21:18:30 <Basil> whatever the numbers turn into, UC is pretty exp-dependent
21:18:35 <PleasingFungus> well I wasn't being serious with the crosstraining thing, but 20 m&f->10 uc doesn't actually sound that bad
21:18:40 <reaverb> nrook: Hmm, and where do the classes come in?
21:18:46 <PleasingFungus> tbh
21:18:53 <Basil> PleasingFungus: you'd be hitting things with a flail
21:19:05 <Basil> unless you're a dragon
21:19:12 <nrook> surprise! they don't! it's still using dynamic dispatch instead of a big switch statement though
21:19:17 <nrook> maybe I'd make them classes instead
21:19:24 <PleasingFungus> Basil: or a bladehandsman
21:19:26 <PleasingFungus> blade dragon
21:19:28 <nrook> but when I mocked that up |amethyst made fun of me for being a java developer
21:19:45 <PleasingFungus> nrook: ha ha, you're a java developer & also you smell funny
21:19:45 <Basil> ??metamorphosis
21:19:45 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled metamorphosis in my learndb.
21:19:48 <Basil> ??metamorphosis card
21:19:49 <Sequell> metamorphosis card[1/1]: Transforms you based on card power. Power 0 gives spider form, ice form, or bat form. Power 1 gives statue form or blade hands. Power 2 gives lichform or dragon form. Note that lichform from this source will not anger the good gods, but you must still watch out for the unarmed brands of spider (poison) and lich (draining).
21:20:01 <Basil> hmm
21:20:01 <PleasingFungus> like two of those allow you to wield weapons
21:20:03 <reaverb> nrook: Oh, hmm.
21:20:09 <reaverb> nrook: Why the java comment?
21:20:10 <PleasingFungus> ??statue form
21:20:10 <Sequell> statue form[1/4]: Grants great AC (17 + earth/2), a 30% HP boost, and +2 Str, but makes the base cost of an action 15 instead of 10, similar to the slow spell, and reduces EV by 10. Melds gloves, boots/barding, and body armour. Provides rPois, rElec, rN+, and rRot+. 3+str/3 bonus unarmed damage, and 50% damage bonus to all melee. {Stoneskin} also gives more AC.
21:20:31 <nrook> because my base class was named AbilityExecutor
21:20:56 <PleasingFungus> fr: ExecutionerExecutor
21:22:00 <nrook> woot woot, uploaded https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8386
21:22:19 <gammafunk> for any UC-only form, set some UC skill based on highest weapon skill, for forms that allow weapons, don't change any skill
21:22:34 <PleasingFungus> fail_check() still makes me want to cry
21:22:47 <nrook> well, sed is right there for you if you really believe
21:22:49 <gammafunk> isn't that one a macro
21:23:03 <reaverb> gammafunk: Yes.
21:23:10 <gammafunk> don't cry over macros
21:23:12 <nrook> s/fail_check()/return SPRET_FAIL
21:23:33 <nrook> er, no, if (fail) return SPRET_FAIL;
21:23:38 <reaverb> gammafunk: It isn't even in all caps!!!!!
21:23:45 <nrook> uh then it'd be a macro obv
21:23:47 <gammafunk> well make it all caps!!!!
21:23:49 <nrook> I mean
21:23:50 <PleasingFungus> and it's pretending to be a function
21:23:50 <nrook> an enum
21:23:56 <nrook> I know isn't it adorable
21:24:09 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: you do realize that macros are explicitely designed to do that
21:24:12 <PleasingFungus> imo merge the patch (if it works) then sed
21:24:21 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: I do realize that macros are terrible, yes
21:24:25 <gammafunk> no
21:24:27 <gammafunk> my god
21:24:32 <gammafunk> you want to remove all function macros?
21:24:41 <PleasingFungus> I want to not be programming in c
21:24:42 <gammafunk> talk about masochistic
21:24:49 <PleasingFungus> is that too much to ask
21:24:57 <gammafunk> you want to not have a compiled language is what you want
21:24:59 <nrook> what's wrong with programming in c
21:25:02 <nrook> it's better than c++
21:25:02 <reaverb> Also the main problem is we actually have to type "fail_check" for every single ability rather than that being implictilly defined via some exterior logic (such as in a base class, might not be the best way to do that)
21:25:03 <gammafunk> in which cast C++ is not for you
21:25:09 <gammafunk> *case
21:25:11 <Basil> PleasingFungus: macros with lisp
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21:25:15 <Basil> hmm
21:25:23 <reaverb> nrook: C better than C++ ? Hmm, I'd say they're differant tools.
21:25:43 <Basil> Anyway, Deck of War is supposed to be "active Xom," right?
21:25:50 <gammafunk> yeah I'm not defending fail_check in particular though, surely that could be handled in a better way
21:25:53 <|amethyst> except the fail_check isn't always in the same place
21:26:00 <reaverb> Basil: active Xom?
21:26:06 <gammafunk> but sometimes macro functions save you a lot of work in an imperfect world
21:26:07 <|amethyst> I think it probably should be  FAIL_CHECK;   though  (with
21:26:11 <PleasingFungus> ^
21:26:15 <|amethyst> s/(with//
21:26:27 <PleasingFungus> make it very very obvious that there's something funny going on
21:26:27 <reaverb> |amethyst: Yes, that's why I mentioned such as "in a base class".
21:26:27 <nrook> I in contrast think "FAIL_CHECK;  though (with" would be a bad name for a macro
21:26:45 <gammafunk> hue
21:26:52 <PleasingFungus> I think it's perfect
21:26:54 <PleasingFungus> and without flaw
21:26:55 <Basil> reaverb: that's how I heard someone say N7 described newNem's direction
21:27:03 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: did you have an opinion on the 'set a release date' idea?
21:27:11 <PleasingFungus> or have we decided against the feature freeze
21:27:14 <PleasingFungus> for now
21:27:19 <Basil> and it seems reasonably accurate with that deck, but again I didn't hear it from N7 directly
21:27:38 <reaverb> Basil: Hmm, I never heard N7 describe it like that but I don't keep constant tabs on him.
21:27:45 <nrook> Using classes would be nice because it'd give you dynamic dispatch, and because it lets you execute an ability in the same place as you ask about an ability's properties
21:28:29 <nrook> I'm too lazy to do 2 though so function pointers it is! if I ever get around to this, anyway
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21:29:11 <reaverb> Hmm, why does Jiyva curing bad mutations even have a fail check.
21:29:19 <gammafunk> heh
21:29:19 <reaverb> It's a strategic ability, isn't it?
21:29:32 <PleasingFungus> "cause everything has a fail check" - nrook
21:29:36 <PleasingFungus> "I copied fail check"
21:29:38 <PleasingFungus> "for everything"
21:29:50 <PleasingFungus> he also notes that this is the current behaviour
21:29:51 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Oh, so it doesn't actually have fail in-game
21:29:51 <PleasingFungus> just
21:29:53 <PleasingFungus> more explicit
21:29:56 <gammafunk> reaverb: what you do is you get next to a shining eye, let it mutate you, and cure until you like what you get
21:29:58 <PleasingFungus> in effect, yes
21:30:00 <PleasingFungus> haha
21:30:01 <reaverb> Oh, oh, so it does.
21:30:13 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: but shining eyes are friendly to jivyites!
21:30:20 <gammafunk> ok
21:30:23 <gammafunk> mut cloud then
21:30:26 <|amethyst> not if they're shapeshifters!
21:30:30 <gammafunk> right on
21:30:37 <PleasingFungus> dang
21:30:56 <reaverb> gammafunk: You could just walk into the cloud, walk out, spam cure bad mut, and then repeat.
21:30:58 <Basil> that still needs to be fixed maybe
21:30:59 <PleasingFungus> I wonder if that's the source of some of the weird
21:31:02 <reaverb> So it has no effect.
21:31:08 <reaverb> on scumminess.
21:31:11 <PleasingFungus> "slime not friendly to jivyites" bug
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21:31:19 <Basil> well, it's more
21:31:21 <PleasingFungus> cure bad mut has a piety cost
21:31:24 <PleasingFungus> it's not actually free
21:31:26 <Basil> "Do you want to attack the shining eye"
21:31:31 <gammafunk> reaverb: it's *specifically* to prevent minmaxing with shapeshiffters that turn into shining eyes
21:31:36 <gammafunk> these are mlg pro strats
21:31:49 <PleasingFungus> jiyva piety costs are normally not a big deal, but I suspect it'd come up with this kind of scumming :)
21:31:53 <nrook> If you call _do_ability(JIYVA_CURE_BAD_MUTATIONS_OR_WHATEVER, True), you will expect it to fail, and it's very weird if it doesn't fail
21:32:19 <reaverb> Yes Pleasingfungus has the way this is prevented <_< >_>
21:32:32 <nrook> it also eliminates the strong guarantees we can make that _do_ability(.*, True) never returns SPRET_FAIL, and _do_ability(.*, False) never returns SPRET_SUCCESS
21:33:30 <reaverb> nrook: Hmm, could just set fail to 0% somehow?
21:33:57 <|amethyst> where is this fail check?
21:34:04 <|amethyst> on cure bad mut
21:35:46 <|amethyst> oh, I see, in activate_talent
21:36:05 <|amethyst> I think I'm confused
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21:36:10 <|amethyst> <+reaverb> nrook: Hmm, could just set fail to 0% somehow?
21:36:13 <|amethyst> don't we already do that?
21:36:43 <PleasingFungus> "you're all wrong"
21:37:17 <nrook> I mean, I believe that's what we do already
21:37:30 <reaverb> nrook: the setting fail to 0%
21:37:30 <reaverb> ?
21:37:32 <nrook> yeah
21:38:01 <|amethyst> !source get_talent
21:38:02 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ability.cc;hb=HEAD#l913
21:38:04 <nrook> previously, all abilities had a fail check right before _do_ability, where a random number was consulted, and if it was under the fail chance the ability immediately failed
21:38:29 <nrook> with my change, the fail_check instead just makes _do_ability be called with fail=true if the ability fails
21:38:43 <reaverb> nrook: Ok, that's fine.
21:39:01 <nrook> but jiyva cure bad mut presumably never failed before, and never fails now either
21:39:08 <PleasingFungus> !source zot's_got_talent
21:39:08 <reaverb> Yes, that's true.
21:39:08 <Sequell> Couldn't understand 's_got_talent
21:39:11 <PleasingFungus> :(
21:39:32 <PleasingFungus> (see, it's like america's got talent, except
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21:42:04 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1735-gf5b527b: Deduplicate some code. 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5b527b32e7d
21:42:04 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1736-gafe582e: Assert that we don't use more RNGs than we have. 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=afe582e62d68
21:43:17 <reaverb> "more RNGs than we have" :D
21:44:09 <|amethyst> MORE RNGS THAN YOUR ROGUELIKE HAS ROOM FOR!
21:45:24 <|amethyst> I considered using a FixedVector rather than adding the assert
21:45:41 <|amethyst> but that would have required an extra #include :P
21:46:25 <gammafunk> doesn't c++ have something like a fixed vector, or are our asserts in that class just way more appropriate.
21:46:47 <reaverb> Hmm, are the RNGS seperate enough for thereretically implementing that "fixed dungeon" thing dpeg has mentioned before.
21:46:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  C++11 does
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21:47:04 <reaverb> Where you can explore the exact same dungeon as somebody else.
21:47:35 <gammafunk> |amethyst: did you see what I had to do re: that vector initialization thing for the objstat code
21:47:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  which commit?
21:47:57 <gammafunk> !function _init_fields
21:47:58 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dbg-scan.cc;hb=HEAD#l1083
21:49:11 <gammafunk> I guess it wouldn't be all that much worse to do a bunch of vector.push_back()
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21:49:27 <gammafunk> just a lot more lines
21:49:34 <|amethyst> that would be worse :0
21:49:38 <|amethyst> s/0/)/
21:49:42 <|amethyst> a lot more lines, I mean
21:50:05 <gammafunk> not sure if there's a better macro, but it works at least
21:50:06 <|amethyst> could do the push_backs in the macro
21:50:26 <|amethyst> that second argument is only necessary to name the variable, right?
21:50:29 <gammafunk> yes
21:50:33 <gammafunk> how would I do that specifically?
21:50:48 <gammafunk> some kind of VAR_ARG loop?
21:51:02 <|amethyst> hm
21:52:23 <|amethyst> I guess you'd probably need to make the array anyway so it doesn't simplify anything
21:52:38 <PleasingFungus> last chance to set a 0.15 release date before I publish the blog post
21:52:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  I wouldn't include a date in the post
21:52:56 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  maybe "mid-August"
21:53:09 <|amethyst> or late if people would prefer that, but I think mid would be better
21:53:10 <gammafunk> link to the SOON jpg
21:53:37 <|amethyst> and mid-August gives us a few more weeks for features
21:54:04 <gammafunk> my living crabs and swift snails
21:54:04 <PleasingFungus> aight
21:54:21 <PleasingFungus> I guess it's time for me to work on that consumables rebalance
21:54:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  hmm, I could simplify it a bit if it weren't for monster_fields
21:55:08 <gammafunk> ah, you mean if the target var was always the same
21:55:12 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  and if you don't mind all-caps "variable" names
21:55:21 <|amethyst> yeah
21:55:35 <PleasingFungus> blog post is up. mock my errors
21:55:43 <gammafunk> as in ITEM_FIELDS? that wouldn't be great
21:55:55 <nrook> you gotta mock your errors in unit tests, because they're global
21:56:08 <|amethyst> hm
21:56:22 <gammafunk> to be fair I should also have those map keys use enums
21:56:27 <|amethyst> does anyone happen to know if forwarding __VA_ARGS__ macros are legit
21:56:49 <PleasingFungus> nrook: booooo
21:56:51 <|amethyst> oh
21:56:58 <|amethyst> I was misreading this thing
21:57:21 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1737-g933cb40: Changelog through 0.15-a0-1733-gc591b79 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=933cb4062d48
21:57:23 <|amethyst> it says it can't be used as an ordinary macro argument *name*, not that it can't be used as an argument to a macro
21:57:49 <|amethyst> this is why I like drawing a clear distinction between parameters and arguments
21:58:13 <|amethyst> "actual parameter" makes me twitch :)
21:58:14 <PleasingFungus> parameters are what you pass in, arguments are what you have inside the function?
21:58:16 <PleasingFungus> I forget
21:58:25 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  other way around
21:58:29 <PleasingFungus> close enough!
21:58:44 <PleasingFungus> I'm surprised I even got that close; it's been years since I even thought about it
21:58:46 <nrook> parameters are what you have in the function, arguments are what you have about its signature
21:58:56 <SamB> lol
21:59:09 <|amethyst> the other terminology is "formal" versus "actual" parameters
21:59:35 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:00:10 <PleasingFungus> that makes a kind of sense
22:00:17 <reaverb> "If燼nyone爎eads爐his�&爂ets爄t爐o牋+10爋r爃igher爄n燼n燼ctual爂ame,爏end爏creenshots!"
22:00:18 <reaverb> Ha.
22:01:02 <reaverb> Hmm, would it be good the remove the "a" Beogh worship ability now that p works?
22:01:02 <PleasingFungus> I had no idea where to tell them to send screenshots to
22:01:10 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: I thought about it, but no
22:01:15 <PleasingFungus> what if you're worshipping fedhas
22:01:17 <PleasingFungus> and want to convert
22:01:36 <reaverb> I think not working if you already have a god is a plus.
22:01:42 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:01:57 <reaverb> Because you probably don't want to switch and the "Beogh" sign on every orc priest is kind of annoying.
22:01:58 <|amethyst> why?
22:02:06 <|amethyst> hm
22:02:09 -!- Krymise has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz鈥
22:02:49 <reaverb> and iff it's really important you could just abadon your there god and pray.
22:03:08 <|amethyst> that's two turns though
22:03:14 <reaverb> That sentance was horribly mangled.
22:03:55 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: to be fair, simplifying the ui at the cost of a nerf to a very very niche case seems like a reasonable tradeoff
22:03:55 <reaverb> |amethyst: I think that's worth not having the Beogh sign, I think wanting the switch to beogh while you already have a god is a corner case.
22:04:29 <reaverb> Particularly since Beogh is evil so you have guarenteed wrath.
22:04:50 <|amethyst> !lm * recent god.worship=beogh s=god
22:04:51 <Sequell> 4954 milestones for * (recent god.worship=beogh): 4954x Beogh
22:04:53 <|amethyst> oh
22:04:58 <|amethyst> that didn't do what I hoped
22:05:12 <|amethyst> FR:
22:05:39 <|amethyst> .echo $(!lm * god.worship=beogh)
22:05:40 <Sequell> 5806. :id=9847923:game_key=Ascension::cszo::20140527020900S:offset=745578928:file=remote.cszo-milestones-git:alpha=true:src=cszo:v=0.15.0-a0:cv=0.15-a:name=Ascension:race=Hill Orc:crace=Hill Orc:cls=Monk:char=HOMo:xl=4:sk=Unarmed Combat:sklev=4:title=Insei:place=D::3:br=D:lvl=3:absdepth=3:ltyp=:hp=40:mhp=40:mmhp=40:str=13:int=10:dex=14:god=Beogh:dur=0::02::49:turn=2671:urune=0:nrune=0:time=2014052...
22:06:06 <reaverb> Maybe look up recent milestones worshipping beogh but having another god's wrath?
22:06:37 <|amethyst> is wrath in the status field?
22:06:43 <reaverb> no clue <_<
22:06:48 <gammafunk> it's in the kaux
22:06:50 <gammafunk> iirc
22:06:57 <|amethyst> milestones don't have kauxes
22:06:59 <gammafunk> if the player died
22:07:03 <gammafunk> otherwise I don't think so
22:07:13 -!- ChangeAj has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:07:21 <|amethyst> !lg * / kaux~~wrath
22:07:22 <Sequell> 7029/3363943 games for *: N=7029/3363943 (0.21%)
22:07:28 <|amethyst> !lg * beogh / kaux~~wrath
22:07:29 <Sequell> 75/34988 games for * (beogh): N=75/34988 (0.21%)
22:07:36 <PleasingFungus> huh
22:07:39 <PleasingFungus> precise
22:08:02 <reaverb> !log * beogh  kaux~~wrath
22:08:03 <Sequell> 75. AnnaZZing, XL5 HOFi, T:2343: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/AnnaZZing/morgue-AnnaZZing-20140526-062233.txt
22:08:05 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: critical skill of korean boegh users gab bias
22:08:11 <PleasingFungus> !
22:08:20 <reaverb> !log * beogh  kaux~~wrath -2
22:08:21 <Sequell> 74/75. Wings, XL9 HOFi, T:2436: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/Wings/morgue-Wings-20140524-090455.txt
22:08:34 <reaverb> !log * beogh  kaux~~wrath -3
22:08:35 <Sequell> 73/75. choisan, XL11 LOFi, T:12562: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/choisan/morgue-choisan-20140326-015722.txt
22:08:40 <gammafunk> !lg * server=ckr god=beogh / won
22:08:41 <Sequell> Unknown field: server
22:08:42 <|amethyst> reaverb:  anyway, I think it's not exactly a corner case, because one reason to switch is to save your ass from an orc priest and buddies
22:08:46 -!- evablue has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:08:47 -!- Evablue_ is now known as Evablue
22:08:47 <gammafunk> !lm * src=ckr god=beogh / won
22:08:52 <Sequell> 1266/16309 milestones for * (src=ckr god=beogh): N=1266/16309 (7.76%)
22:09:00 <reaverb> |amethyst: Oh, hmm.
22:09:00 <gammafunk> !lm * recent  god=beogh / won
22:09:06 <Sequell> 6449/51063 milestones for * (recent god=beogh): N=6449/51063 (12.63%)
22:09:37 <|amethyst> of course it only works once :)
22:10:02 <reaverb> |amethyst: I don't have an opionon on perserving that, but it didn't exist before Pr removal.
22:10:16 <|amethyst> yeah
22:10:24 <reaverb> the LOFI one (choisan) actually does involve switching to Beogh.
22:10:28 <reaverb> from Zin.
22:10:51 <|amethyst> anyway, I think disallowing conversion to Beogh is kind of bad interface
22:10:53 <reaverb> I don't know if I should argue that as evidence for or against my case <_< >_>
22:10:59 <|amethyst> worse than an extraneous light IMO
22:11:14 <|amethyst> maybe the light could be hidden if you have a god?
22:11:22 <reaverb> |amethyst: or grey :D
22:11:32 <|amethyst> hm
22:11:33 <reaverb> hiding it seems weird.
22:11:38 <|amethyst> I would kind of prefer red to grey
22:11:45 <|amethyst> grey makes it seem like it's disabled or something
22:11:56 <reaverb> Red is for dangerous things.
22:12:01 <|amethyst> exactly
22:12:08 <|amethyst> converting from your god to Beogh is dangerous
22:12:12 <reaverb> Well, immediately dangerous things.
22:12:17 <reaverb> Like Conf & Petr
22:12:22 <|amethyst> ah, I see what you mean
22:12:38 <reaverb> Giving you an ability which is bad is still better than not having that option.
22:12:40 <|amethyst> counterexample: vampires
22:12:52 <|amethyst> (bloodless being red)
22:12:53 <Basil> noregen
22:13:10 <|amethyst> is not immediately dangerous unless you're at low HP :)
22:13:21 <|amethyst> well
22:13:22 <PleasingFungus> %git :/icon
22:13:23 <Cheibriados> 07ontoclasm02 * 0.15-a0-1689-gfa11693: Ability icons (plus flight) 10(2 days ago, 11 files, 2+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa11693111c5
22:13:23 <reaverb> Also that's partially because starving is red.
22:13:42 <|amethyst> but, no, I think you're right
22:13:57 <|amethyst> players, at least non-Vp ones, are trained to notice red in that area
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22:17:03 <reaverb> Maybe just give the Beogh prompt once, and never show it again.
22:17:17 <PleasingFungus> that's pretty harsh
22:17:22 <|amethyst> yeah
22:17:28 <reaverb> Hmm.
22:17:28 <minmay> being bloodless is also pretty bad...
22:17:42 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev
22:17:50 <|amethyst> minmay:  I thought it was standard practice for most of the game?  Or is it extended only?
22:18:08 <twelwe> before i sink more time into this is there any chance pizza tornado can be the 2015 crawl april fools joke?
22:18:56 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue]
22:19:02 <PleasingFungus> is it funny
22:19:07 <|amethyst> depends on whether food exists in 2015
22:19:13 <reaverb> ^
22:19:26 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: The changelog is a good read, have you seen it?
22:19:55 <|amethyst> twelwe:  maybe not "the", but I see no reason to have only one
22:20:07 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: I have but I forget
22:20:14 <reaverb> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9255
22:20:27 <Basil> |amethyst: replace s-z trunk with NetHack
22:20:33 -!- Morik has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
22:20:44 <|amethyst> well, I guess if it'
22:20:56 <|amethyst> if it's that large, that would be worthy of an entire AFJ
22:21:20 <twelwe> it would be a total conversion, all names, weapons, skills, even graphics for tiles
22:21:23 <|amethyst> Basil:  atc
22:21:28 <Basil> mmm
22:21:34 <twelwe> descriptions etc. no transloations, though
22:21:35 <PleasingFungus> clearly make it a fork
22:21:37 <PleasingFungus> so to speak
22:21:49 <|amethyst> translations might be gone by then anyway
22:21:52 <PleasingFungus> out-hearty extra hearty edition
22:22:27 <reaverb> twelwe: an extra branch like nostalgia would be best, yes. Also means you don't have to worry about save compat as you implement it.
22:22:35 <|amethyst> since no one active seems to have time and/or desire to devote to translation infrastructure
22:23:01 <|amethyst> Chris O did some work on gettextising stuff
22:23:21 <Basil> |amethyst: was anything ever translated aside from descriptions?
22:23:29 -!- eb has quit []
22:24:05 <reaverb> Basil: I think also a couple messages in, for example, canned_msg()
22:24:06 <|amethyst> Basil:  a few things in database/ for like two languages (el and pl)
22:24:12 <Basil> hmm
22:24:23 <PleasingFungus> I had some thought about what you'd need to do to make crawl properly localized
22:24:25 <PleasingFungus> but it would be
22:24:27 <PleasingFungus> a lot of work
22:24:35 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  kilobyte also put a lot of thought into that
22:24:51 <|amethyst> but I don't know if any code came out of that
22:24:57 <Basil> oh well
22:25:03 <reaverb> Also, just how big is the number of people who could be reached?
22:25:05 <reaverb> !lg *
22:25:06 <Sequell> 3363957. rpophessagr the Sneak (L5 SpEn), slain by a gnoll (a +0 spear) on D:3 on 2014-06-27 03:21:57, with 144 points after 2311 turns and 0:08:21.
22:25:14 <|amethyst> the problem is tagging grammar stuff
22:25:17 <gammafunk> be reached?
22:25:19 <Basil> !lg * x=cdist(name)
22:25:21 <Sequell> 3363957 games for *: cdist(name)=40483
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22:25:38 <reaverb> gammafunk: Well, how many people would be playing a French localized version of Crawl?
22:25:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  i.e. how many people would play translated crawl that wouldn't play English crawl
22:25:57 <gammafunk> well those are two different numbers :)
22:26:06 <gammafunk> so maybe yeah defined reached
22:26:38 <PleasingFungus> what directory is the webtiles server in? I forget
22:26:41 <|amethyst> since reaverb said it, use his implied definition
22:26:44 <reaverb> |amethyst said it best, I don't have enough statistics on-hand to properly guestimate a number of players for a localized Crawl.
22:26:46 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  webserver/
22:26:48 <gammafunk> haha
22:26:49 <PleasingFungus> ah
22:26:55 <PleasingFungus> was looking in webtiles/ and server/
22:27:01 <|amethyst> reaverb:  come on, help me out here :)
22:27:08 <gammafunk> who's on first
22:27:09 <reaverb> "how many people would play translated crawl that wouldn't play English crawl"
22:27:30 <|amethyst> I think both are important to consider
22:27:33 <|amethyst> 1. new players
22:27:39 <|amethyst> 2. convenience for existing players
22:27:58 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm, I didn't consider number 2, yes.
22:28:10 <SamB> would it be convenient for existing players for everything to be translated?
22:28:12 <|amethyst> Probably most existing players (excluding native English speakers of course) would find translation an inconvenience
22:28:22 <SamB> maybe they'd want a toggle of some kind
22:28:33 <SamB> but then you'd need to be able to translate the backlog
22:29:01 <|amethyst> I do think translation is a worthy goal even if the number is small
22:29:52 <SamB> and I can't help but wonder about searching and highlighting and ...
22:30:20 <|amethyst> I think step 1 is change the default language from English to s-exprs
22:30:37 <|amethyst> then English-language players will demand internationalization
22:30:40 <|amethyst> s/z/s/
22:31:27 <SamB> as long as it that's the whole interface, the emacs users would love it ;-P
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22:34:05 <|amethyst> SamB:  just change the ( ) to { } and quote everything and you have webtiles
22:34:47 <SamB> except the event text is all in english
22:35:08 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]]
22:35:18 <SamB> and the stuff that comes back from webtiles doesn't seem particularly high-level, either
22:35:38 <|amethyst> oh, I was getting away with i18n with that thought
22:35:44 <|amethyst> was thinking of an emacs frontend
22:36:02 <|amethyst> and how you could probably do that with webtiles
22:36:02 <SamB> well, that's one idea, sure
22:36:11 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]]
22:36:36 <SamB> but some people want to automate the gameplay in emacs too
22:36:38 <SamB> or so they say
22:36:51 <|amethyst> do people automate the gameplay in javascript I wonder?
22:37:01 <|amethyst> I guess there's .... which bot was that?
22:37:24 <SamB> I mean, you could obviously do it already, but it's a lot more complicated than it needs to be
22:37:25 <|amethyst> ??rw
22:37:25 <Sequell> rw[1/1]: <clouded_> rw is like watching a baby grow
22:38:14 <SamB> what with the need to parse the text stream and all
22:38:22 <reaverb> rw is Haskell
22:38:23 <SamB> or at least spot things in it
22:38:30 <reaverb> Maybe compiled down to javascript.
22:38:38 <|amethyst> reaverb:  right, but I think it interacts with crawl through webtiles
22:38:50 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm.
22:39:06 -!- tollymain has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
22:39:26 <|amethyst> I asked about javascript because that seems like the easiest way to interact with webtiles
22:40:04 <|amethyst> since you'd have all the functions etc in the webtiles client at your disposal
22:41:07 <PleasingFungus> reaverb, were you still planning to try to salvage the diamond obelisk
22:41:33 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: I was thinking about addings some randomized walls, yes.
22:41:38 <reaverb> Were you going to remove it?
22:41:56 <PleasingFungus> thinkin about it
22:41:58 <PleasingFungus> but not if you have plans
22:42:08 <reaverb> I think the randomized walls thing might just make it worst.
22:42:15 <reaverb> s/worst/worse/
22:42:32 <reaverb> SinceIf you know the system you would be able to make a plan but otherwise the vault would be impossible.
22:43:01 <reaverb> Alternatively, replace Labryinths with diamond obliesk vaults <_<    >_>
22:43:05 <PleasingFungus> honestly I'm not sure what it's trying to achieve
22:43:08 <PleasingFungus> the vault
22:43:36 <reaverb> kiobyte made it.
22:43:45 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Anyway, feel free to remove it.
22:44:11 <PleasingFungus> ok
22:44:15 <PleasingFungus> can be reverted if people have cool pans
22:44:17 <PleasingFungus> or plans
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22:46:38 <reaverb> %git fcd1cdd87
22:46:39 <Cheibriados> 07kilobyte02 * 0.9-a1-698-gfcd1cdd: A vault showcasing tornado rotation.  The only way in is to let yourself get carried away. 10(3 years ago, 4 files, 39+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcd1cdd875ed
22:47:30 <PleasingFungus> yeah I just don't know that the basic idea is all that great
22:47:45 <reaverb> Hmm, that assumed that it would require some resources to get the item.
22:47:50 <Patashu> hey guys
22:47:52 <Patashu> !lg werehuman
22:47:53 <Sequell> 222. Werehuman the Bludgeoner (L12 GrBe of Trog), slain by in Volcano (volcano_aerie) on 2014-06-27 03:46:52, with 21908 points after 12927 turns and 1:34:23.
22:47:54 <reaverb> Rather than requiring a spoilery set of instrcutations.
22:47:59 <Patashu> (the killer was a fire vortex)
22:48:10 <reaverb> Patashu: So?
22:48:16 <Patashu> it's a bug
22:48:16 <gammafunk> reaverb: see the lg
22:48:16 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: 'slain by in'
22:48:25 <Patashu> I think drowned souls also cause it
22:48:25 <reaverb> Oh, hmm.
22:48:31 <Patashu> because they also eat themselves when they do an attack
22:48:33 <PleasingFungus> !send reaverb exploded by
22:48:34 <Sequell> Sending exploded by to reaverb.
22:48:35 <gammafunk> Ashenzari warns you, "It burns"
22:48:50 <Henzell> phalm (L22 DECj)  (Crypt:3)
22:49:21 <Patashu> ??blownupbu
22:49:22 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled blownupbu in my learndb.
22:49:22 <Patashu> ??blownupby
22:49:23 <Sequell> blownupby ~ blown up by[1/8]: SGrunt the Blackguard (L16 SpEn), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, blown up by in D:13 on 2012-05-18, with 100483 points after 42163 turns and 3:02:32.
22:49:28 <Patashu> it's like these old deaths
22:54:52 <Grunt> ??blown up by[slain
22:54:53 <Sequell> blown_up_by[3/8]: Zeor the Executioner (L16 LOBe of Trog), slain by on Shoals:5 on 2014-02-03 04:23:50, with 140562 points after 40698 turns and 3:34:47.
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23:00:48 <|amethyst> hm
23:01:04 <|amethyst> what are these break;s doing in _band_member ?
23:01:40 <|amethyst> I can kind of understand it after the if..else if...else  just to vaoid confusion, but:
23:01:44 <|amethyst> case BAND_EXECUTIONER:
23:01:46 <|amethyst> return MONS_ABOMINATION_LARGE;
23:01:49 <|amethyst> break;
23:02:30 <gammafunk> people paranoid about case fallthroughs
23:03:23 <PleasingFungus> to be fair, switch/case is terrible
23:03:32 <reaverb> #define case break;case
23:03:50 <PleasingFungus> ha
23:04:06 <PleasingFungus> but first "#define fallthrough_case case"?
23:04:12 <PleasingFungus> I almost like that
23:04:43 <|amethyst> I don't like "fallthrough_case"
23:04:46 <|amethyst> use "also" instead
23:04:49 <|amethyst> lines up better
23:04:53 <PleasingFungus> nice
23:04:59 <|amethyst> case BAND_ORC_KNIGHT:
23:05:03 <|amethyst> also BAND_ORC_HIGH_PRIEST:
23:05:12 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
23:06:25 <reaverb> Hmm, how would /*fall - through */ be handled? :D
23:06:40 -!- kcfos has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:07:04 <|amethyst> t
23:07:14 <|amethyst> the "also" documents it so you wouldn't need the comment
23:07:18 <|amethyst> code becomes shorter
23:07:41 <|amethyst> the only problem is... your first "case" needs to be an "also"
23:07:49 <PleasingFungus> hm
23:07:52 <|amethyst> or does it?
23:07:53 <PleasingFungus> I suppose so, yes
23:08:07 <|amethyst> I don't remember what happens with stuff before the first case:
23:08:07 <PleasingFungus> imagine 'for x: switch y: case..."
23:08:11 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev
23:08:19 <PleasingFungus> you'd end up dropping out of the loop
23:09:08 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: "It's... bigger on the inside!"]
23:09:17 <|amethyst> hm
23:09:27 <|amethyst> I think maybe it just gets skipped
23:09:37 <reaverb> of course the solution to that is to build in logical case to your language instead relying on macros afterward <_< >_>
23:10:06 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:10:24 <gammafunk> well as long as it achieves the thing of making code shorter, which is what I like about switch/case
23:10:45 <PleasingFungus> hm
23:10:49 <PleasingFungus> do you know javascript
23:10:58 <PleasingFungus> do you know how it automatically adds semicolons to the end of each line, invisibly
23:11:37 <gammafunk> is this going somewhere
23:12:10 <PleasingFungus> I am drawing an analogy
23:12:27 <reaverb> gammafunk: I don't think it is, unless somebody wants to go over to #C++ to argue it out :D
23:12:30 <PleasingFungus> between one well-intended feature
23:12:31 <PleasingFungus> and another
23:12:47 <reaverb> Pleasingfungus: Invisible ; does sound terrible.
23:12:56 <gammafunk> uh huh, switch/case is like auto-adding a single char to a line
23:13:28 <PleasingFungus> well
23:13:40 <PleasingFungus> #define case break; case
23:13:48 <PleasingFungus> is like that
23:13:50 <PleasingFungus> except worse, really
23:13:56 <|amethyst> I don't think anyone is actually going to do that
23:13:58 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:13:59 <gammafunk> well I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about switch/case
23:14:11 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: I forgive you
23:14:14 <PleasingFungus> for talking about the wrong thing
23:14:15 <PleasingFungus> :)
23:14:22 <|amethyst> but it seems like it would be a reasonable semantics
23:14:26 <gammafunk> no, you're free to have bad opinions
23:14:29 <gammafunk> no forgiveness needed
23:15:02 <|amethyst> if you wanted to avoid the problem with accidental fall-through, which is a terrible part of switch; but keep the ability to have fall-through, which is a nice part
23:15:08 <gammafunk> yeah
23:15:37 <PleasingFungus> huh
23:15:39 <gammafunk> fixing that would be nice; I was opposed to having fall-through at all until I realized how annoying writing if/else everwhere can be
23:15:42 <PleasingFungus> apparently perl handles this in a sane way
23:15:57 <PleasingFungus> " For example, Perl does not fall through by default, but a case may explicitly do so using a continue keyword."
23:16:07 <reaverb> Speaking of synthetical oddities, does C++ have a #import command or equivalent or does everybody just use header guards?
23:16:13 <PleasingFungus> ha ha ha
23:16:44 <gammafunk> header guards do seem like one of those things that you shouldn't have to do in every .h file
23:16:55 <gammafunk> but I don't really understand what the issues are
23:17:13 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  Perl lets you jump to the next case, not just fall-through
23:17:19 <PleasingFungus> dang!
23:17:27 <PleasingFungus> I should learn perl some day
23:17:43 <|amethyst> reaverb:  most compilers have a  #pragma once
23:17:47 <|amethyst> reaverb:  but it's not standard
23:17:55 <reaverb> |amethyst: Hmm.
23:18:00 <gammafunk> don't thik I've ever used switch in perl
23:18:08 <gammafunk> but I don't have to write much perl thankfully
23:18:19 <SamB> reaverb: it turns out that #import isn't as simple as you'd think though
23:18:26 <|amethyst> you put it at the top of the header file, and it does the same thing as the include guard except the preprocessor doesn't even have to scan the file
23:18:48 <reaverb> SamB: Hmm, that would make sense.
23:18:57 <SamB> I think a good preprocessor can avoid rescanning well-behaved files anyway
23:19:16 <gammafunk> that would seem logical
23:19:25 <gammafunk> but I guess preprocessors are hard to make?
23:20:05 <SamB> like "nesting seems to be in order, okay, note this down as skippable if FOO_H is still defined when someone tries to include it again ..."
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23:23:30 <Cheibriados> Depths displayed after Zot on dungeon overview 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8742 by Skrybe
23:23:59 <|amethyst> well, time to break save compat
23:24:07 <|amethyst> to reorder the enums :)
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23:25:14 <PleasingFungus> or we could make the displayed order in the dungeon overview not based on enum order
23:25:17 <PleasingFungus> (but that's boring!)
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23:36:43 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus a BORING enum
23:36:43 <Sequell> Sending a BORING enum to PleasingFungus.
23:37:16 <reaverb> It'll be autofixed when we next bump TAG_MAJOR_VERSION
23:39:30 <reaverb> So does anybody want to try to fix this? Should the bug be resolved with "this will be fixed when we bump the major version" ?
23:39:58 <|amethyst> I don't think it should be closed WONTFIX
23:40:14 <|amethyst> leave it open and we can close it then if it hasn't been fixed in some other way
23:40:15 <gammafunk> ??branch_order
23:40:15 <Sequell> hyperelliptic[1/1]: Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:4 -> maybe other S:4 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot
23:40:29 <gammafunk> proposed ctrl-o listing
23:41:11 <gammafunk> maybe just have a hyperelliptic bar and a mikee diesel bar
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23:42:30 <PleasingFungus> huh
23:42:49 <PleasingFungus> does a special case that halves the power of ely's healing for djinn need to stay in, even in a TAG_MAJOR_VERSION block?
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23:44:16 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Well the fishing pole thing was removed.
23:44:19 <reaverb> And Hovering.
23:44:20 <PleasingFungus> the what
23:44:50 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Dj were assumed to have a fishing pole they could use to grab thing out of shallow water with.
23:45:03 <reaverb> I think that was removed? Not sure.
23:45:25 <PleasingFungus> that's hilarious
23:46:27 <PleasingFungus> // Returns: 1 -- success, 0 -- failure, -1 -- cancel
23:46:31 <PleasingFungus> maybe this doesn't need to be a thing
23:46:48 <reaverb> If we still hange out here in a few years, it's going to be fun to mess with people who never heard of Dj or LO.
23:46:54 <reaverb> s/hange/hang/
23:47:15 <PleasingFungus> why wait? just start messing with people now
23:47:19 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  yeah, that should be a spret_type
23:47:20 <PleasingFungus> that's my plan
23:47:24 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: changing it as we speak
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23:49:13 <reaverb> It's really surprsing how complex Dj were when you think about it...
23:49:25 <reaverb> !lm * Dj alive
23:49:26 <Sequell> 309. [2014-06-12 05:13:40] phytoclasm the Phalangite (L18 DjDK of Yredelemnul) killed the ghost of moose the Severer, a mighty VSSk of Okawaru on turn 56872. (Vaults:1)
23:50:05 <Lightli> !lm * Dj
23:50:06 <Sequell> 93383. [2014-06-12 05:13:40] phytoclasm the Phalangite (L18 DjDK of Yredelemnul) killed the ghost of moose the Severer, a mighty VSSk of Okawaru on turn 56872. (Vaults:1)
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23:52:22 <PleasingFungus> !lm * dj ely
23:52:23 <Sequell> 2088. [2014-03-08 06:17:01] joy1999 the Pacifier (L6 DjHe of Elyvilon) entered an Ossuary on turn 4627. (D:5)
23:52:47 <reaverb> !lm * dj ely alive
23:52:48 <Sequell> No milestones for * (dj ely alive).
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