00:01:11 <Sizzell> Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15.1-1-gfacfea3
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00:02:01 <gammafunk> yeah that's probably a good idea, shrinking HoB
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00:06:00 <johnstein> half the level seems big. but I'd have to try it out
00:09:18 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7 (34)
00:11:12 <Gretell> Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15.1-1-gfacfea3 (34)
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00:12:55 <reaverb> Does anybody know offhand where the derived undead placement code is for random spawns? I want to see if any secondary adjustments would be necessary to follow through with nerfing derived undead weight in D.
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00:15:38 * Grunt annoys johnstein.
00:15:56 <johnstein> hola grunt
00:18:47 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7 (34)
00:25:48 <johnstein> that ignite poison issue from earlier (the one that is similar to the malign offering issue) should I write it up on mantis or was reporting it here enough?
00:26:26 <Grunt> johnstein: imo mantis it so someone remembers to deal with it
00:26:34 <johnstein> will do
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00:28:23 * gammafunk mantises Grunt. Grunt is devoured by a an emperor mantis!!!
00:28:36 <gammafunk> s/ a//
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00:34:36 * Grunt squashes the issue like an ant!!!!!
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00:47:01 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7
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01:09:42 <magicpoints> Here: a ghost crab (lightly wounded, constricted by you, ghostly)
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02:16:14 <Cheibriados> One-handed characters still auto-pickup duplicate rings 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8976 by Thrassey
02:18:16 <Rotatell> Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15.1-1-gfacfea3
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04:43:57 <johnny0> that feeling when you call make without popping your stashed Makefile changes :(
04:45:25 <Sizzell> nago (L14 TrHu) ASSERT(rc == 0) in 'mutation.cc' at line 2349 failed. (Lair:5)
04:51:10 <johnstein> %git :/align [Oo]ffer
04:51:13 <Cheibriados> 07Grunt02 * 0.14.1-28-g9c7d1f1: Correct death message for Malign Offering (#8904). 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c7d1f1303ea
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04:59:42 <Cheibriados> Looks like ignite poison may use the generic weapon kill death message (similar to 8904 'malign offering') 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8977 by johnstein
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08:22:31 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-690-g741f093: Make milestones for Ru sacrifices 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 27+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=741f0934d15b
08:22:45 <Lasty> !learn del lasty_to_do[2
08:22:45 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
08:22:45 <Sequell> Deleted lasty to do[2/2]: Look into making Ru sacrifices into milestones.
08:22:50 <Lasty> !messages
08:22:50 <Sequell> (1/1) |amethyst said (10h 4m 35s ago): later, and welcome to the team!  BTW, you're on the secret mailing list now.  Ask a dev privately for the address
08:23:49 <Lasty> !tell |amethyst thanks! Is it a different secret mailing list than crd?
08:23:49 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
08:28:19 <Lasty> !lg lasty cbro
08:28:20 <Sequell> No games for lasty (cbro).
08:28:26 <Lasty> !lg lasty clan
08:28:27 <Sequell> No games for lasty (clan).
08:28:37 <Lasty> ??servers
08:28:37 <Sequell> servers[1/1]: See {cao}, {cszo}, {cbro} (US) or {cdo}, {clan} (EU), or {ckr} (Asia-Pacific). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto
08:28:47 <Lasty> !lg Lasty cdo
08:28:47 <Sequell> 16. Lasty the Chucker (L3 MiHu of Okawaru), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+0 flail) on D:2 on 2012-10-15 00:40:51, with 163 points after 1804 turns and 0:16:17.
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08:29:51 <|amethyst> Lasty:  yes, it's a separate list, used mostly for discussing new dev candidates, and occasionally for other things
08:29:51 <Sequell> |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
08:30:04 <Lasty> !tell johnstein Grunt says I should ask you to promote my CBRO account to Dev status
08:30:04 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let johnstein know.
08:30:21 <Lasty> !tell TZer0 Grunt says I should ask you to promote my CLAN account to Dev status
08:30:22 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let tzer0 know.
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08:47:16 <Lasty> !seen napkin
08:47:17 <Sequell> I last saw Napkin at Wed Sep 17 17:01:36 2014 UTC (1d 20h 45m 40s ago) joining the channel.
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08:50:14 <reaverb> Lasty: Might want to do that in Pm to avoid pinging Nap Kin
08:50:26 <Lasty> Ah, true
08:50:45 <Lasty> though I do have a question for them. ;)
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09:16:35 <TZer0> !tell Lasty on it.
09:16:36 <Sequell> TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
09:16:36 <Sequell> TZer0: OK, I'll let lasty know.
09:16:38 <TZer0> !messages
09:16:39 <Sequell> (1/1) Lasty said (46m 17s ago): Grunt says I should ask you to promote my CLAN account to Dev status
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09:31:16 <Lantell> casual (L27 GrFi) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 431 failed. (Tomb:3)
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09:52:16 <johnstein> "Done, Lasty is now a DGL admin."
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09:53:05 <Lasty1> Thanks!
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10:12:36 <Napkin> alright, let's do some maintenance
10:12:37 <Sequell> Napkin: You have 24 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:14:40 <geekosaur> open invitation to murphy, that was
10:15:18 <Lasty1> Hey Napkin :)
10:15:33 <Napkin> hi Lasty :)
10:16:15 <Lasty1> !learn add ru_to_do conflicting racial mutations can cause a crash -- Troll w/ Slow Healing, for example.
10:16:16 <Sequell> ru to do[5/5]: conflicting racial mutations can cause a crash -- Troll w/ Slow Healing, for example.
10:17:02 <Lasty1> Whatta ya think about Lasty@CDO?
10:17:36 <Napkin> |amethys1: password reset done, thanks
10:18:24 <Napkin> checking, Lasty
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10:24:45 <Napkin> 15. Okt 2012  Lasty.where
10:24:55 <Napkin> that's a while back
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10:27:11 <Lasty1> yeah
10:27:32 <Lasty1> It seems like someone who tried the game briefly and then quit, never to return
10:27:40 <Lasty1> 16 total games
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10:29:17 <Cheibriados> freezing wraith (12W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-57 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 1612(cold:8-23), 1313(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 313 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

10:29:17 <Bloaxor> %??freezing wraith
10:29:33 <Bloaxor> 12/10 AC/EV ow
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10:31:32 <Napkin> Lasty, what do you mean by scrubbing the games?
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10:31:53 <Lasty1> Napkin: It seems like someone who tried the game briefly and then quit, never to return -- only 16 total games
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10:32:00 <Napkin> yes, that i agree
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10:32:05 <Lasty1> By scrubbing I meant erasing -- I'd prefer to not have them on my record
10:32:11 <Napkin> i can't
10:32:14 <Lasty1> gotcha
10:32:17 <Napkin> that's the stats bots
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10:32:35 <Lasty1> well, that's a more minor thing
10:32:49 <Napkin> but, so few games won't matter long ;)
10:33:02 <reaverb> Lasty1: Somebody ninja'd me on "reaver" for CBRO. That account was actually briefly promoted to developer before it was caught.
10:33:03 <Bloaxor> !lg lasty 1
10:33:04 <Sequell> 1/197. Lasty the Fey Orc (L10 HODK of Yredelemnul), slain by a black mamba on Lair:2 on 2012-02-20 03:18:12, with 5024 points after 11982 turns and 4:09:28.
10:33:07 <Lasty1> If you'd prefer, I could start another account on the server: Lasty1 or something
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10:33:15 <Lasty1> reaverb: haha
10:33:20 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty
10:33:23 <Napkin> sqlite> delete from dglusers where username="Lasty";
10:33:24 <Lasty> identify shepherd
10:33:25 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
10:33:27 <Napkin> done, Lasty
10:33:35 <Lasty> oops
10:33:39 <Bloaxor> g j
10:33:43 <Lasty> yeah
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10:33:52 <Lasty> gonna need to change that
10:34:20 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev
10:34:20 <Napkin> register you account on cdo, while you're at it ;)
10:34:20 -!- dexap is now known as paxed
10:34:41 -!- Lasty has quit [Disconnected by services]
10:34:48 <greensnark> I just had to test if that was his real password :P
10:35:06 <Bloaxor> FATALITY
10:35:29 <Napkin> mean guy ;)
10:35:37 <greensnark> I can never resist :D
10:35:50 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev
10:35:57 <Napkin> you gave him almost 60 seconds to change it ;)
10:36:03 <Lasty> :p
10:36:20 <Lasty> and i need to look up the commamd
10:37:18 <Lasty> anyone know what it is offhand?
10:37:21 <Bloaxor> [17:37:17] -NickServ- To set a new password if you know the current
10:37:21 <Bloaxor> [17:37:17] -NickServ- password, use SET PASSWORD instead of SETPASS.
10:37:21 <Bloaxor> [17:37:17] -NickServ-
10:37:33 <Bloaxor> /msg nickserv help
10:37:35 <Bloaxor> is p. gud
10:38:15 <Lasty> ty
10:38:46 <Lasty> awright, all better. Napkin: set up the CDO account
10:38:59 <Napkin> good :)
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10:39:18 <Lasty> thanks folks
10:40:31 <gammafunk> Napkin: Sorry, did you get my message about tavern admin rights?
10:40:58 <gammafunk> or mod rights, since I should be more specific
10:41:07 <Napkin> uhm, what was it?
10:41:16 <Napkin> please repeat, sir
10:41:17 <gammafunk> I asked if I could be added to the list of mods
10:41:39 <gammafunk> Mostly to handle thinks like the "sexy drow elf please" posts
10:41:50 <gammafunk> when the usual mods aren't around and I notice them
10:42:12 <gammafunk> n.b. I have nothing against drow elves, even sexy ones
10:42:32 <Lasty> could i also get my tavern acct switched over please?
10:42:53 <gammafunk> Are you ready for the orange and all that entails?
10:43:05 <Lasty> gammafunk: I feed on their hatred!
10:43:13 <gammafunk> ...he'll do well
10:43:15 <Napkin> gammafunk: mods are counsellors?
10:43:27 <reaverb> Lasty: I think dpeg is the one who adds people to the dev group.
10:43:37 <Lasty> also: thanks for moderating sexy drow
10:43:40 <gammafunk> hmr, not sure exactly
10:43:52 <Napkin> ah, no, got them
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10:44:17 <Napkin> ok, mod, gammafunk
10:44:22 <gammafunk> thanks Napkin
10:44:30 <Bloaxor> rip tavern
10:44:35 <Napkin> don't cause havok
10:44:44 <gammafunk> I will def. not cause havok
10:45:04 <Lasty> I may cause some havok
10:45:22 <gammafunk> Well be careful about that, since I'm a mod now
10:45:23 <Napkin> and Lasty added to "Dungeon Masters"
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10:46:09 <Medra> crawl definitely should use havok physics engine
10:46:10 -!- Medra is now known as Medar
10:46:48 <geekosaur> (so far, so good --- xcode 6 hasn't broken building yet...)
10:47:06 <Napkin> anything else i forgot/didn't do yet?
10:47:06 <Lasty> thanks, Napkin!
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10:47:30 <Lasty> afaik that's everything
10:47:47 <reaverb> Medra: Make a patch! (We probably won't actually push it but you can play your fork :D)
10:48:24 <gammafunk> Lasty: actually, since you probably know how to do this, should I leave this "Leave a shadow topic" option checked when moving the topic to cyc?
10:48:40 <gammafunk> not sure what that does
10:48:49 <Lasty> actually, I don't know -- I haven't been a mod before
10:49:09 <reaverb> gammafunk: I would leave it.
10:49:17 <gammafunk> reaverb: ok, what does it do?
10:49:21 <Napkin> it means there will be a link to the new location
10:49:43 <Napkin> generally i don't like the mess ;) but check how others were moved
10:49:48 <reaverb> gammafunk: cntrl-F Bloody Death on the current GDD page.
10:49:57 <gammafunk> alright, thanks
10:50:03 <gammafunk> this one can probably be moved without a link
10:50:09 <gammafunk> but I'll check
10:50:20 <reaverb> (bikeshedding!!!)
10:51:45 * gammafunk paints reaverb a Zotish shade of purple!
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10:55:45 * Grunt paints gammafunk with mutagenic paint!!!!!!
10:56:15 * gammafunk basks in the mutagenic energy...
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10:57:48 <gammafunk> ah, another bot kill
10:57:49 <gammafunk> .gmap -tv
10:57:55 <Sequell> 53. qw, XL12 DDBe, T:13442 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org).
10:58:38 <gammafunk> 2slo
10:58:39 <gammafunk> .gmap -tv
10:58:45 <Sequell> 53. qw, XL12 DDBe, T:13442 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org).
10:59:43 <gammafunk> ...weird
10:59:43 <gammafunk> .gmap -tv:x0.5
10:59:49 <Sequell> 53. qw, XL12 DDBe, T:13442 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org).
11:00:40 <gammafunk> huh, the tv just cut off
11:00:53 <gammafunk> guess footv just grabbe the wrong ttyrec
11:00:58 <gammafunk> .gmap -ttyrec
11:01:07 <Sequell> 53. qw, XL12 DDBe, T:13442: http://dobrazupa.org/ttyrec/qw/ 2014-09-19.04:21:16.ttyrec.bz2 2014-09-19.04:31:58.ttyrec.bz2
11:03:32 <gammafunk> !lg qw kmap=~gammafunk
11:03:33 <Sequell> 2. qw the Severer (L12 MiBe of Trog), slain by a dire elephant on Lair:6 (gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake) on 2014-09-12 00:11:35, with 21136 points after 15801 turns and 0:11:10.
11:05:05 <gammafunk> ah, that kill was actually qw dying to a qw ghost
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11:05:21 <gammafunk> didn't realize that gave kmap credit
11:05:37 <gammafunk> oh no, map credit, right
11:05:45 <gammafunk> !cmd .gmap
11:05:46 <Sequell> Command: .gmap => !lg * (( map=~gammafunk || kmap=~gammafunk )) place!=D place!=Forest
11:05:52 <gammafunk> yeah, makes sense
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11:14:54 <ontoclasm> Lasty: i had a suggestion for the problem you mentioned in the thread
11:15:06 <Lasty> oo!
11:15:13 <ontoclasm> what if cataclysm -temporarily- converted all spaces in view into floor?
11:15:25 <ontoclasm> (maybe not stone, definitely not permarock)
11:15:32 <Lasty> O.o interesting
11:15:42 <ontoclasm> that would make it a sort of poor man's fly and dig
11:15:45 <Lasty> yeah
11:15:51 <Lasty> Intriguing
11:16:13 <Lasty> What happens when it switches back? Does it wait for you to not be standing on an affected tile?
11:16:36 <Lasty> I suppose there's already code for that for things like shoals tide
11:16:38 <ontoclasm> i think temporary terrain does that, yeah
11:16:56 <reaverb> If you find a good solution for turning things to temporary floor it should be used for digging etc. too.
11:16:57 <Lasty> well, that would solve it
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11:18:54 <Lasty> I'll look into
11:18:55 <gammafunk> reaverb: hrm, you mean that digging should be temporary?
11:18:56 <Lasty> it
11:18:59 <Lasty> afk for a while
11:19:25 <reaverb> gammafunk: Yes, probably.
11:19:29 <gammafunk> since I can see some problems with that
11:19:48 <gammafunk> as in, you dig into mini cave with your last charge, move in
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11:19:58 <gammafunk> all the walls close up, save the space you're on
11:20:03 <gammafunk> and you have no teleport
11:20:13 <reaverb> Yes, but Lasty was talking about trying to find a solution for that for Cataclysm.
11:20:24 <reaverb> or Apoclypse.
11:20:35 <gammafunk> well when I said 'digging' I mean all player digging
11:20:46 <gammafunk> or at least specifically /digging and /disint
11:20:59 <gammafunk> (which is what I thought you were also saying)
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11:21:49 <gammafunk> so we agree to add more functions checking monster glyphs? good, it's settled then!
11:21:52 <reaverb> gammafunk: Those problems also apply to Apocolypse. I'm saying if there's a solution which works for Apocolypse, it should probably be applied to all forms of digging.
11:23:23 <gammafunk> well since apocolypse is technically of infinite supply (or at least you can always use it again after a while) it's not the same
11:23:28 <johnstein> ??cataclysm
11:23:28 <Sequell> cataclysm[1/3]: Ru's 5* ability. Deals heavy damage to all monsters in LOS and can add statuses like mute, paralysis, and slow. Costs about 1.5 to 2 skill levels of drain.
11:23:34 <reaverb> You could Abondan Ru :D
11:23:34 <johnstein> ah ok
11:23:44 <johnstein> that sounds fun
11:23:57 <gammafunk> well yes, but that's a bit weirder than running out of /dig and /disint
11:24:01 <johnstein> I might start warming up to vaults 5
11:24:01 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk, you are the worst.
11:24:09 <johnstein> with an ability like that
11:24:18 <reaverb> gammafunk: Yes, I guess so.
11:24:26 <reaverb> (Should still be applied to monster digging if it happens)
11:24:42 <gammafunk> reaverb: that's a problem too! I see your point about trying to generalize though
11:25:16 <gammafunk> If you give players like PleasingFungus an easy way to entomb themselves, they will entomb themselves
11:26:18 <gammafunk> !lg . ktype=~starv
11:26:19 <Sequell> 2. gammafunk the Spear-Bearer (L8 MfSk of Okawaru), starved to death on D:8 on 2013-10-26 21:30:58, with 1278 points after 3481 turns and 0:48:45.
11:26:26 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:26:30 <gammafunk> how on earth did I manage that
11:26:34 <gammafunk> !lg . ktype=~starv -2
11:26:34 <Sequell> 1/2. gammafunk the Basher (L10 HEFi of Okawaru), starved to death on D:9 on 2012-09-16 02:49:05, with 6506 points after 14365 turns and 1:11:13.
11:26:41 <gammafunk> wow, or that
11:26:51 <PleasingFungus> !crashlog casual
11:26:52 <Sequell> 5. casual, XL27 GrFi, T:124859 (milestone): http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/casual/crash-casual-20140919-143114.txt
11:27:00 <PleasingFungus> !source spl-tornado.cc:431
11:27:00 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-tornado.cc;hb=HEAD#l431
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11:28:00 <Cheibriados> bennu (08b) | Spd: 18 | HD: 14 | HP: 59-95 | AC/EV: 6/16 | Dam: 2704(napalm), 1808(holy), 1813(drain) | evil, see invisible, fly, regen | Res: 06magic(149), 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++ | Vul: 12drown, 08holy | XP: 1386 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

11:28:00 <gammafunk> %??bennu
11:28:03 <PleasingFungus> ah ha ha
11:28:08 <PleasingFungus> huh
11:28:18 <PleasingFungus> can natasha respawn in LOS?
11:28:37 <PleasingFungus> if so, this is probably a bug for her too, since bennu use code copy-pasted from her resurrection stuff
11:28:39 <PleasingFungus> !source mon-death.cc
11:28:40 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc;hb=HEAD
11:29:14 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: different topic, but I started looking at nrook's branch; did you have any strong opinions on these commits?
11:29:23 <PleasingFungus> ah, looks like they can
11:29:25 <gammafunk> They seem fine so far but I need to look a bit more carefully
11:29:28 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: I posted a bunch of comments last night
11:29:38 <PleasingFungus> also stuck them in my todo, under the "natereform" heading
11:29:40 <gammafunk> ah, would that be on gitorious?
11:29:47 <PleasingFungus> no, in c-dev
11:29:47 <gammafunk> ok, so do you want to handle these specifically?
11:29:54 <PleasingFungus> I think that'd be unkind
11:30:02 <PleasingFungus> they're mostly fine, I just want to tidy a few things
11:30:12 <PleasingFungus> constify a few variables, tweak a few comments
11:30:38 <PleasingFungus> don't want to make him wait another week+ just for that
11:31:01 <gammafunk> alright, I can find the comments at the end of that magnum opus todo you wrote?
11:31:17 <PleasingFungus> _resist_mutation's comment should be doxygenified (absurd to add new function comments now that aren't!), and item_chance should be renamed to something that's not bad
11:31:18 <PleasingFungus> honestly I'd be really strongly tempted to break up that return-block into multiple if-return-true blocks
11:31:20 <PleasingFungus> de-nest 1462
11:31:21 <PleasingFungus> mutation_class_type -> mut_permanence_class
11:31:35 <gammafunk> alright, fair enough
11:31:37 <PleasingFungus> and also I have a local branch sitting around somewhere that cleans up one of the patches
11:32:01 <PleasingFungus> but again those changes weren't dramatic, iirc
11:32:03 <gammafunk> well I'll just make any changes I see that need changing and incorporate your stuff, and you can make a follow-up commit
11:32:10 <PleasingFungus> ya
11:32:41 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Do bennu use copy-pasted copy-pasted code, or do they share the code path?
11:33:15 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:33:32 <PleasingFungus> :)
11:33:44 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: Please tell me it's not literally copy-pasted.
11:34:07 <PleasingFungus> to be fair, there's a comment explaining the reasoning
11:34:16 <PleasingFungus> !source mons_bennu_revive
11:34:17 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc;hb=HEAD#l3434
11:34:50 <PleasingFungus> anyway, the tornado bug can probably occur with natasha as well, though it'd be extremely unlikely
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11:34:56 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: did you see the reason for that crash?
11:35:18 <PleasingFungus> well, yes
11:35:24 <PleasingFungus> it's just like the rakasha crash
11:35:32 <gammafunk> %git
11:35:32 <Cheibriados> 07Lasty02 * 0.16-a0-690-g741f093: Make milestones for Ru sacrifices 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 27+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=741f0934d15b
11:35:34 <PleasingFungus> new monsters being created in the middle of a tornado
11:36:08 <PleasingFungus> like the rakshasha, it probably needs to be turned into a... I forget the term, a delayed effect
11:36:14 <reaverb> That isn't too too terrible but they should still be joined.
11:36:17 <PleasingFungus> and natasha as well
11:36:21 <gammafunk> ah
11:36:21 <reaverb> fineff
11:36:26 <reaverb> final effect
11:36:41 <reaverb> !source fineff.cc
11:36:42 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/fineff.cc;hb=HEAD
11:36:52 <gammafunk> fineff ~ fine fungus fungus
11:37:20 <PleasingFungus> I'm not sure that's really what that means, gammafunk.
11:37:26 <elliptic> ugh, Ru sacrifices should *not* all have different verbs
11:37:43 <elliptic> is that on the servers already
11:37:51 <gammafunk> %version
11:37:51 <Sizzell> trunk: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7;  0.15: 0.15.1-1-gfacfea3;  0.14: 0.14.2;  0.13: 0.13.2;  0.12: 0.12.3;  0.11: 0.11.3;  0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415
11:38:04 <gammafunk> seems not on cszo
11:38:12 <elliptic> &versions
11:38:17 <Sequell> CAO: 0.16-a0-668-g3e2fa8d, CBRO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7, CDO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7, CKR: 0.16-a0-668-g3e2fa8d, CLAN: 0.16-a0-670-g3b10be2, CSZO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7
11:38:27 <PleasingFungus> I think standard rebuild time is in about 12 hours?
11:38:46 <PleasingFungus> it always seemed to be around 9 pm pacific, which is... okay, I am lost in space and time and have no idea when that is
11:38:48 <elliptic> !lm * verb~~^sacrifice s=verb
11:38:48 <Sequell> No milestones for * (verb~~^sacrifice).
11:38:55 <johnstein> CBRO is a couple hours later (midnight PST)
11:38:59 <PleasingFungus> ah
11:39:24 <elliptic> Lasty: can I revert your Ru milestone commit? they really shouldn't all use different verbs
11:39:24 <johnstein> because I don't want my games to lag when I'm actually near my computer and able to play :P
11:39:45 <elliptic> or I guess I can just change the verbs instead of reverting
11:39:56 <gammafunk> elliptic: yeah, he said he's afk for a while
11:40:03 <elliptic> the correct thing is to have Ru sacrifice milestones all have the same verb and have sequell parse the noun from text
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11:41:20 <PleasingFungus> be the change you want to see in gitorious.
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11:44:37 <reaverb> elliptic: If milestone have to be held back a couple more days I don't think its a big issue.
11:44:45 <|amethys1> PleasingFungus:  be a decent UI that doesn't barf when the commit is too big?
11:45:02 <elliptic> reaverb: it doesn't have to be held back, it just needs to be fixed
11:45:08 <elliptic> ??cheipoke
11:45:08 <Sequell> cheipoke[1/1]: http://s-z.org/cgi-bin/cheipoke
11:45:16 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-691-g21e4870: Don't use different verbs for different sacrifices. 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21e48705b6db
11:45:25 <elliptic> ??rebuild
11:45:25 <Sequell> rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely.
11:46:12 <PleasingFungus> huh
11:46:23 <PleasingFungus> that's a lot of exclamation marks
11:46:29 <PleasingFungus> from lasty's change, not elliptic's
11:48:14 <elliptic> oh, I misread vlong and am rebuilding cln for no reason
11:48:14 <reaverb> elliptic: I haven't really seen mark_milestone before so I didn't realize it could be fixed so quickly, I meant if you needed to revert it for a while to do it properly that would have been fine in my opinon :D
11:49:15 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst
11:49:32 <|amethyst> !cmd &versions
11:49:32 <Sequell> Command: &versions => .echo $(join ", " (map (fn (src) (concat $src ": " (=version.query $src $*))) (serverlist)))
11:49:42 <|amethyst> !cmd =version.query
11:49:42 <Sequell> Command: =version.query => !lg * recent $* max=vlong fmt:"$vlong" stub:"none"
11:49:53 <|amethyst> is there a reason that uses lg instead of lm ?
11:50:42 <elliptic> !tell Lasty I changed the "verb" in the Ru sacrifice milestones to all be sacrifice, since otherwise we would be increasing the number of verbs by 50% for no reason - you can still tell what type of milestone it was from the text, and from the "noun" field once someone patches Sequell to compute that from the text
11:50:42 <Sequell> Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys!
11:50:53 <elliptic> !tell Lasty I changed the "verb" in the Ru sacrifice milestones to all be sacrifice, since otherwise we would be increasing the number of verbs by 50% for no reason - you can still tell what type of milestone it was from the text, and from the "noun" field once someone patches Sequell
11:50:53 <Sequell> elliptic: OK, I'll let lasty know.
11:51:18 <elliptic> |amethyst: no, I think I meant it to use !lm too
11:51:30 <elliptic> !cmd =version.query !lm * recent $* max=vlong fmt:"$vlong" stub:"none"
11:51:32 <Sequell> Redefined command: =version.query => !lm * recent $* max=vlong fmt:"$vlong" stub:"none"
11:51:36 <|amethyst> &versions
11:51:47 <Sequell> CAO: 0.16-a0-668-g3e2fa8d, CBRO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7, CDO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7, CKR: 0.16-a0-668-g3e2fa8d, CLAN: 0.16-a0-670-g3b10be2, CSZO: 0.16-a0-689-g516c4f7
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11:52:01 <elliptic> I guess it is a bit slower now
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11:52:12 <|amethyst> ah, hm
11:52:30 <|amethyst> and people do tend to die quickly on average... :)
11:52:40 <elliptic> better to be more accurate though
11:52:47 <elliptic> worth the extra 5 seconds
11:53:12 <elliptic> I guess using !lm doesn't catch transferred games that die before getting a milestone
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11:53:23 <Bloaxor> !lm Bloax 1
11:53:24 <elliptic> so it isn't strictly more accurate
11:53:26 <Sequell> 1/6009. [2012-06-01 16:45:47] Bloax the Ruffian (L2 TrMo) killed Terence on turn 330. (D:2)
11:53:34 <Bloaxor> hm
11:53:46 <|amethyst> elliptic:  sequell could inject a death milestone
11:56:09 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: btw I found the true tournament results lying around my desktop http://i.imgur.com/Bqvwe9p.png
11:56:11 <PleasingFungus> p good imho
11:56:17 <elliptic> I think that shouldn't really be necessary
11:56:53 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: yeah, but I'm not carrying the team like that next year. You all are going to have to step it up a notch
11:57:28 * reaverb silently slips below the radar.
11:58:15 <elliptic> |amethyst: maybe a milestone for transferring save, though
11:58:39 <elliptic> not sure how much volume that would add
11:59:45 <PleasingFungus> I'll take that under consideration.
11:59:53 <PleasingFungus> ...er...
12:00:10 <PleasingFungus> !lg gammafunk swamp:5 killer~~"seven-headed hydra"
12:00:10 <Sequell> 3. gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna), mangled by a seven-headed hydra (called by something) (kmap: swamp) on Swamp:5 on 2014-08-31 21:04:26, with 21791 points after 8302 turns and 1:35:17.
12:00:18 <Grunt> something!!!
12:00:21 <PleasingFungus> !lg * ikiller~~something
12:00:22 <Sequell> 29. irum the Chopper (L7 FoWn), mangled by Something's ghost on D:5 on 2014-09-13 10:19:30, with 473 points after 5484 turns and 0:11:37.
12:00:24 <elliptic> ??something
12:00:24 <Sequell> something[1/6]: The naga mage disappears! Something loses its grip on you.
12:00:25 <PleasingFungus> ...
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12:00:36 <elliptic> !lg * ikiller=something
12:00:37 <Sequell> 15. 666 the Skirmisher (L1 DsAK of Lugonu), succumbed to something's poison gas on Abyss:1 on 2014-09-09 08:13:08, with 0 points after 11 turns and 0:00:25.
12:00:38 <Grunt> !lg * ikiller~~something ikiller!~~ghost
12:00:39 <Sequell> 15. 666 the Skirmisher (L1 DsAK of Lugonu), succumbed to something's poison gas on Abyss:1 on 2014-09-09 08:13:08, with 0 points after 11 turns and 0:00:25.
12:00:51 <gammafunk> was that the druid convoking?
12:01:00 <PleasingFungus> convoking doesn't summon, though?
12:01:02 <PleasingFungus> !log * ikiller=something
12:01:03 <Sequell> 15. 666, XL1 DsAK, T:11: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/0.15/666/morgue-666-20140909-081308.txt
12:01:04 <elliptic> !lg * ikiller=something s=vmsg
12:01:04 <Sequell> 15 games for * (ikiller=something): 10x succumbed to something's poison gas, mangled by a seven-headed hydra (called by something), slain by a boulder beetle (called by something), mangled by a six-headed hydra (called by something), succumbed to something's curare-tipped needle, annihilated by a dire elephant (called by something)
12:01:17 <gammafunk> well nothing else has summon hydra; I don't think that was a summon
12:01:22 <elliptic> !lg * ikiller=something s=cv
12:01:22 <Sequell> 15 games for * (ikiller=something): 7x 0.15-a, 3x 0.15, 2x 0.14-a, 2x 0.14, 0.16-a
12:01:28 <PleasingFungus> some players have summon hydra
12:01:35 <PleasingFungus> !log gammafunk swamp:5 killer~~"seven-headed hydra"
12:01:36 <Sequell> 3. gammafunk, XL12 HESu, T:8302: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20140831-210426.txt
12:02:06 <gammafunk> yeah there was a druid there; I think that was his convoking
12:02:10 <PleasingFungus> hm
12:02:19 <gammafunk> they often get me if I don't set things up well enough
12:02:22 <PleasingFungus> does convoking set ikiller, now?
12:02:45 <PleasingFungus> !lg * ikiller~~"called by"
12:02:45 <Sequell> No games for * (ikiller~~'called by').
12:02:52 <PleasingFungus> hm
12:03:01 <PleasingFungus> !log gammafunk swamp:5 killer~~"seven-headed hydra" x=ikiller
12:03:02 <Sequell> 3. gammafunk, XL12 HESu, T:8302: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20140831-210426.txt
12:03:15 <PleasingFungus> mm.
12:03:31 <elliptic> !lg * kpath~~"called by"
12:03:31 <Sequell> 257. shummie the Basher (L15 HuAK of Lugonu), rolled over by a boulder beetle (called by a young spriggan druid) on Lair:8 (minmay_lair_end_enchanted_forest) on 2014-09-19 13:07:52, with 52817 points after 27880 turns and 1:42:50.
12:03:41 <gammafunk> !src mon-cast.cc:2440
12:03:43 <elliptic> !lg * kpath~~"called by" s=ikiller
12:03:43 <Sequell> 257 games for * (kpath~~'called by'): 139x a spriggan druid, 22x a young spriggan druid, 17x the severe capriciousness of Xom, 13x the effects of Hell, 13x a Zot trap, 12x the power of Zot, 7x a card of wild magic, 5x miscasting Summon Ice Beast, 5x the wrath of Vehumet, 5x a mad acolyte of Lugonu, 4x something, 3x Mnoleg, 3x the player character, Zofureo, distortion unwield, miscasting Haunt, Lok...
12:03:49 <gammafunk> !source mon-cast.cc:2440
12:03:49 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc;hb=HEAD#l2440
12:03:54 <gammafunk> mons_add_blame(beast, "called by " + druid->name(DESC_A));
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12:05:29 <PleasingFungus> ah ha. oh
12:05:32 <PleasingFungus> oh
12:05:33 <PleasingFungus> that's actually really funny
12:06:01 <PleasingFungus> here is the bug: the druid was out of LOS at the time that it called the hydra (it was mad at one of your summons)
12:06:07 <PleasingFungus> this could also happen with invisible summons
12:06:18 <|amethyst> use druid->name(DESC_A, true)
12:06:26 <PleasingFungus> imho someone with commit access should fix this
12:06:32 <gammafunk> alright
12:06:43 <PleasingFungus> clearly it is your bug, gammafunk, as you died to it.
12:06:44 <gammafunk> only if that death gets removed from my record though; it clearly shouldn't count
12:06:53 <PleasingFungus> why clearly?
12:07:00 <gammafunk> *clearly*
12:07:58 <PleasingFungus> ahh.
12:08:02 <PleasingFungus> it is all clear now.
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12:08:46 <|amethyst> !source monster.cc:2508
12:08:47 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l2508
12:08:54 <|amethyst> looks like double-encoded mojibake
12:09:11 <|amethyst> echo '«' | iconv -f utf8 -t latin1   =>  �
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12:10:08 <gammafunk> |amethyst: what is that...
12:10:25 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-691-g21e4870 (34)
12:10:55 <|amethyst> It's supposed to be a guillemet but is actually a UTF-8 A-circumflex followed by a UTF-8 guillemet
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12:11:56 <gammafunk> well I'm about to push the druid's call thing
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12:13:34 <PleasingFungus> you fool...!
12:13:46 <PleasingFungus> have you tested it? easy to test a wand of invisibility
12:13:50 <PleasingFungus> *with
12:14:30 <gammafunk> I tested with a non innvis one but I guess I should do that
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12:15:59 <PleasingFungus> invis or not in LOS or w/e
12:16:06 <gammafunk> yeah it seems to work fine
12:17:32 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-692-g6659180: Give correct kill attribution for druid's call (PleasingFungus) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6659180f9fa6
12:18:01 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-691-g21e4870 (34)
12:18:02 <PleasingFungus> hooray!
12:18:26 <PleasingFungus> imho message should have been "fix something"
12:20:22 <Grunt> imo replace something with it
12:20:29 <ontoclasm> "Fix it."
12:20:34 <Grunt> ontoclasm: yes <3
12:20:46 <gammafunk> Ashenzari warns you, "It is something."
12:20:50 <Grunt> %git HEAD^{/withers.*withers}
12:20:51 <Cheibriados> 07Grunt02 * 0.11-a0-2929-gea85ad3: A nearby "A nearby it withers and dies" withers and dies. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea85ad332ce1
12:21:35 <ontoclasm> ash should talk exclusively in cryptic prophecy
12:22:18 <ontoclasm> Ashenzari warns you, "Yea, though three red moons shall pass unheeded, beware the turning wave: for toads cannot stand against the birch."
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12:22:41 <|amethyst> Ashenzari warns you, "Five combined, three are one.  One gives access, the bladed sun..."
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12:25:17 <|amethyst> Ashenzari warns you, "They say that it be but it don't."
12:25:48 <ontoclasm> yes
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12:36:20 <Grunt> I much prefer the simplicity of "Ashenzari warns you: It is."
12:39:02 <gammafunk> that remains my favorite buggy message
12:39:14 <gammafunk> I'm mad that it got deleted from learndb, real mad
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13:07:01 <simmarine> why was it deleted
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13:11:22 <Lasty> elliptic: the .whatever is a verb?
13:11:22 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
13:11:42 <Lasty> elliptic: feel free to revert
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13:14:07 <Lasty> elliptic: Oh, I see you already fixed it. That's even better.
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13:17:04 <elliptic> Lasty: yeah, I was going to revert but then I realized that fixing it was nearly as easy :)
13:17:09 <elliptic> !lm * verb=sacrifice
13:17:09 <Sequell> 1. [2014-09-19 18:06:55] Kwzr the Chucker (L4 OgAM of Ru) sacrificed love! (D:3)
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13:18:03 <elliptic> at some point it will be possible do queries like "!lm * sacrifice=love" but that requires some sequell code
13:18:19 <elliptic> for now, can do stuff like
13:18:24 <elliptic> !lm * verb=sacrifice milestone~~love
13:18:25 <Sequell> 1. [2014-09-19 18:06:55] Kwzr the Chucker (L4 OgAM of Ru) sacrificed love! (D:3)
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13:20:56 <gammafunk> !kw orb
13:20:57 <Sequell> Built-in: orb => verb=orb
13:21:06 <Lasty> neat!
13:21:51 <gammafunk> is there a way to find games that e.g. entered a zig (or any branch) after picking up the orb?
13:22:13 <gammafunk> !lm ayutzia orb
13:22:14 <Sequell> 16. [2014-09-19 16:54:28] Ayutzia the Archmage (L27 VpIE of Makhleb) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5)
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13:22:22 <gammafunk> !lg ayutzia br.enter=zig
13:22:22 <Sequell> Unknown field: br.enter
13:22:26 <gammafunk> !lm ayutzia br.enter=zig
13:22:27 <Sequell> No milestones for ayutzia (br.enter=zig).
13:22:57 <gammafunk> !lm ayutzia place=zig
13:22:57 <Sequell> 478. [2014-09-19 17:52:20] Ayutzia the Archmage (L27 VpIE of Makhleb) left a Ziggurat at level 27 on turn 103998. (Zig:27)
13:23:22 <gammafunk> wonder why no br.enter milestone
13:23:26 <gammafunk> !lm ayuztia place=zig:1
13:23:27 <Sequell> No milestones for ayuztia (place=zig:1).
13:23:38 <gammafunk> !lm ayuztia milestone~~Zig
13:23:38 <Sequell> No milestones for ayuztia (milestone~~Zig).
13:24:24 <gammafunk> !lm ayuztia milestone=~Zig
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13:24:24 <Sequell> No milestones for ayuztia (milestone=~Zig).
13:24:27 <gammafunk> !lm ayuztia milestone~~zig
13:24:28 <Sequell> No milestones for ayuztia (milestone~~zig).
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13:24:30 <gammafunk> weird
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13:24:43 <gammafunk> !lm ayuztia milestone~~left
13:24:44 <Sequell> No milestones for ayuztia (milestone~~left).
13:24:51 <gammafunk> oh duh
13:24:51 <elliptic> !lm ayutzia type=zig.enter
13:24:52 <Sequell> 24. [2014-09-19 17:08:53] Ayutzia the Archmage (L27 VpIE of Makhleb) entered a Ziggurat on turn 100323. (Pan)
13:24:52 <gammafunk> pfff
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13:24:58 <elliptic> helps if you spell the name right, yes :P
13:25:06 <gammafunk> how did I get the name wrong and then right and then wrong
13:25:56 <elliptic> but in answer to your earlier question, I don't think there is an easy way of finding such games
13:26:21 <elliptic> certainly possible with sequellese, but it requires some work
13:26:31 <gammafunk> right, I should look into that I guess
13:26:32 <elliptic> you can find games who got the orb and then died in zig though
13:26:45 <elliptic> !lm * orb recent lg:place=zig s=name
13:26:45 <Sequell> 2 milestones for * (orb recent lg:place=zig): Acidburn6, sleeves
13:26:53 <elliptic> !lm * orb recent lg:place=zig -game
13:26:54 <Sequell> Acidburn6:cao:20140616193339S. Acidburn6 the Invulnerable (L27 GrFi of The Shining One), blasted by a merfolk aquamancer (shard of ice) on Zig:24 on 2014-07-17 17:43:04, with 1426887 points after 96701 turns and 11:21:37.
13:26:58 <elliptic> !lm * orb recent lg:place=zig -2 -game
13:27:00 <Sequell> sleeves:cszo:20140305064224S. sleeves the Conqueror (L27 DsMo of Okawaru), blasted by a Balrug (divine providence) on Zig:4 on 2014-04-06 03:15:13, with 796856 points after 146566 turns and 9:30:31.
13:27:13 <gammafunk> yeah ayutzia just did a zig with the orb, which is maybe the first instance of that since we generate orb spawns
13:27:27 <gammafunk> (generate orb spawns in zigs I mean)
13:27:51 <elliptic> maybe, though honestly I don't think orb spawns in zigs are a big deal for many zig chars
13:28:17 <gammafunk> I did a trial run of it and they definitely made some additional situations nontrivial
13:28:30 <elliptic> anyway if you want to figure out how to query this with sequell then you could look at the !orbruntomb command, though that is checking something a bit harder
13:28:36 <gammafunk> ok, thanks
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13:33:21 <simmarine> The barbs in your skin will harm you if you move. Continue?
13:33:22 <simmarine> nice
13:34:49 <simmarine> also i turned off most animations, is my rod range supposed to not show up anymore because of that? the rod doesnt go full los, but doesnt fade the unreachable squares
13:35:46 <ontoclasm> definitely sounds like a bug to me
13:37:08 <Bloaxor> might be related to there supposedly being a flashing animation
13:37:19 <Lasty> eb had a similar issue I think
13:38:33 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-693-g51e2d8e: Change '(currently unavailable)' to '(unavailable)' under sac hand 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=51e2d8e188a0
13:39:03 <gammafunk> (currently and permanently unavailable)
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13:41:01 <Cheibriados> bennu (08b) | Spd: 18 | HD: 14 | HP: 59-95 | AC/EV: 6/16 | Dam: 2704(napalm), 1808(holy), 1813(drain) | evil, see invisible, fly, regen | Res: 06magic(149), 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++ | Vul: 12drown, 08holy | XP: 1386 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

13:41:01 <Bloaxor> %??Bennu
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13:42:31 <Lasty> is there a wizmode command to create an un-id'd item?
13:42:56 <Lasty> nm, I see it
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13:44:02 <wheals> you can also unid items
13:44:21 <Lasty> yeah, that's what I used
13:44:43 <gammafunk> ...because an amazing and incredible programmer added that feature fairly recently
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13:46:01 <Lasty> That person sounds both wise and handsome. A hero among humans.
13:46:24 <ontoclasm> You feel a strangely precise rush of antiknowledge!
13:48:04 <Henzell> jefkin (L23 TrMo) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster Muiroo failed to pathfind to (39,52) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef))
13:48:11 <Bloaxor> but is he a demigod
13:48:19 <Bloaxor> who is euphoric at their own choice of path
13:48:24 <Bloaxor> but not due to some phony god
13:48:34 <Bloaxor> but because they are enlightened by their own superior complexity
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13:49:36 <HoneyLocust> Oh but current demigods cant choose their own path. Such a shame...
13:53:45 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-694-g47af1f6: Don't mark unid'd rods as useless under Sac Love 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=47af1f6eb6e0
13:53:45 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-695-g3ee20a9: Nudge (a)bility success rates over one character 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ee20a92913e
13:54:18 <wheals> someone mentioned above changing the new inventory order -- it's exceedingly easy if you look at the commit
13:54:38 <wheals> just move on of the lines in the FixedVector definition up or down
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13:55:18 <Henzell> jefkin (L24 TrMo) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster fire elemental failed to pathfind to (39,52) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef))
13:55:18 <Lasty> So, re: Apocalypse wiping out all liquids in sight: on some Cocytus layouts that might force repeated use. and_into suggested letting Ru worshippers walk over all liquids passively.
13:55:24 <Lasty> Thoughts?
13:55:48 <simmarine> wheals: jewellery should be above scrolls and wands if you want the wearable equipment together, this also puts scrolls and potions together
13:56:05 <wheals> ah, i thought the order in the patch looked funny
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13:57:36 <simmarine> i quite like rods at top. easy to remember that they actually exist in your inventory
13:58:20 <wheals> yeah, as i said in the comment on mantis this had been bothering me for the longest time
13:58:28 <wheals> almost as long as the patch had been rotting on mantis :P
13:58:46 <gammafunk> Lasty: hrm, that is overlap with beogh
13:59:03 <gammafunk> well I guess you mean *all* liquids don't you
13:59:50 <gammafunk> that is pretty thematic and nice because of its simplicity
14:00:36 <Lasty> gammafunk: yeah
14:00:38 <elliptic> why does Ru have to have anything to do with liquids?
14:00:41 <Lasty> I do mean all liquids
14:00:46 <Lasty> elliptic: you're transcending reality
14:01:02 <elliptic> I mean, I'm sure the flavour can be justified
14:01:11 <elliptic> but is there a reason why we want Ru to have such an ability
14:01:14 <gammafunk> I'm not sure about how people feel about further weirdness wrt the interaction of deep water
14:02:04 <Lasty> I'm not really in favor of it, I just think there's some validity to the complaint that having apocalypse remove liquids still makes Cocytus:7 awful w/o flying
14:02:07 <Lasty> but maybe that's fine
14:02:14 <elliptic> beogh's waterwalking ability only exists because it is very flavorful and nobody can come up with other beogh abilities; Ru has plenty of stuff
14:02:17 <Lasty> awful but possible might be acceptable
14:02:26 <Bloaxor> HoneyLocust: if only some retard was to change that
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14:02:31 <elliptic> Lasty: why should apocalypse remove liquids? I just don't understand
14:02:47 <elliptic> can't Ru chars fly like anyone else?
14:02:50 <Lasty> elliptic: It was a proposal earlier in this thread
14:03:05 <Lasty> elliptic: not if you sacrifice Evo and also Charms or Flight
14:03:06 <HoneyLocust> Bloaxor, if only... But who??
14:03:27 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy
14:03:27 <gammafunk> Lasty: such is the nature of sacrifices!
14:03:36 <elliptic> well, boots of flying and teleportation are still things
14:03:40 <Lasty> well, you could still drink potions of flight, but probably won't get enough for Cocytus:7, and might not have one when immobilized by Obsidian Axe on the wrong side of liquids
14:03:41 <Bloaxor> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=190247#p190247 omfg
14:03:50 <Lasty> gammafunk: I'm fine with that!
14:04:03 -!- tholmes_ has quit [Quit: Changing server]
14:04:08 <Lasty> I honestly am fine with just saying, "yeah, that's what consequences feel like"
14:04:17 <Bloaxor> "change the balance of an already strong race"
14:04:22 <Lasty> I thought there were devs saying that it was a problem
14:04:44 <HoneyLocust> Halcyon days! Redemption has arrived!
14:04:57 <Bloaxor> a race with somewhat high stats with a -2 exp apt and slow skill progression isn't exactly too strong in the first place
14:05:09 <Bloaxor> unless the only thing that counts is the d:1-4 strength index
14:05:12 <elliptic> I just think that Ru already has lots of stuff going on, adding extra complications so soon seems premature
14:05:19 <Lasty> elliptic: works for me
14:05:33 <HoneyLocust> (even with 28 stat points, they are only slightly above the power curve)
14:05:34 <gammafunk> I will not vote for new dg until minmay approves it so there
14:05:34 <elliptic> if it turns out to be an issue, can always add something a bit later :)
14:05:47 <Lasty> awright, cool
14:05:51 <Bloaxor> they have 28 statpoints
14:05:54 <Lasty> I'm going to ignore it then :)
14:05:55 <Bloaxor> at xl27
14:05:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:06:02 <Bloaxor> with a -2 exp apt no less
14:06:07 <Bloaxor> (that's a lot of experience)
14:06:23 <HoneyLocust> Yeah, I tried them out. I didnt feel any more powerful than if I had worshipped a god.
14:06:50 <Bloaxor> they can't beat okawaru or chei
14:06:54 <HoneyLocust> Plus, you are still very much at the mercy of the one true god RNG
14:07:06 <gammafunk> !lg * dgwn won s=name
14:07:06 <Sequell> 39 games for * (dgwn won): BirdoPrey, simm, bicci, 78291, WeiSong, Iskender, agentgt, Thurston, MorganLeah, procodile, clouded, Blakmane, wheals, noobcanoe, nyaakitty, ToastyP, gammafunk, bmfx, SGrunt, dck, Thrkk, MackTheKnife, Tolias, Surr, dgwnrobin, bupper, zkyp, tempdgwn, yobbo, heteroy, AStranger, Basil, johnnyzero, tlatlagkaus, rax, circular, kraphead, n1000, minmay
14:07:14 <wheals> that is not a lot
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14:07:25 <wheals> !lg * dgwn won / @devteam
14:07:26 <gammafunk> None of you know of the true Demigod, since you are not on that list
14:07:26 <Sequell> 5/39 games for * (dgwn won): N=5/39 (12.82%)
14:08:01 <gammafunk> haha, circular
14:08:07 <gammafunk> well that would stand to reason
14:08:08 <wheals> !streak circular
14:08:08 <Sequell> circular has 9 consecutive wins (HaWn, TeWn, HEWn, MiWn, VSWn, DgWn, DrWn, MfWn, CeWn).
14:08:15 <wheals> streaked it, too
14:08:38 <elliptic> it felt like cheating to play such an easy combo on streak but I did it
14:08:42 <Lasty> Dg isn't a bad wanderer
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14:08:53 <elliptic> (that one was :P)
14:08:54 <Bloaxor> VSWn->DgWn
14:09:04 <Lasty> elliptic: ha, fair nuff
14:09:05 <Bloaxor> heh
14:09:23 <gammafunk> man started with book of conj, so it was really just DgCj
14:09:27 <gammafunk> s/man/mine/
14:09:32 <rax> whoah I won a DGWn?
14:09:46 <gammafunk> haha
14:09:55 <rax> that was probably in like 0.4 or something
14:10:05 <gammafunk> !lg rax dgwn x=cv won
14:10:05 <Sequell> 1. [cv=0.4] rax the Slayer (L21 DGWn), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2008-10-01 00:32:47, with 641281 points after 147987 turns and 11:53:45.
14:10:06 <elliptic> gammafunk: someone suggested randomizing Wn starting books more, btw
14:10:12 <Lasty> that was me
14:10:19 <Lasty> er wait -- no, my thing was different
14:10:32 <Lasty> Mine was giving books for the minor gift also
14:10:33 <elliptic> I don't think we'd want to use the generic randbook code exactly
14:10:36 <Lasty> small randart books
14:10:49 <elliptic> but some more restricted randart books could be interesting
14:10:57 <gammafunk> just not a level book, please
14:11:02 <gammafunk> those are the worst
14:11:09 <gammafunk> although as a starting book...
14:11:15 <SwissStopwatch> a wanderer starting with a level 5 spellbook sounds "exciting"
14:11:21 <elliptic> mainly I just don't want scumming-for-randbook to be that attractive
14:11:33 <Lasty> The version I was looking at was giving a skill-themed book with two spells with total level 4
14:11:41 <Bloaxor> your starting book: shock, sandblast, sting, shatter, tornado
14:11:51 <Lasty> but I need to fix the thing where sometimes that means just one level 4 spell
14:11:53 <elliptic> so I'd say that the Wn starting books shouldn't contain any spells that aren't already in a starting book for some background, for instance
14:12:04 <Lasty> elliptic: seems fair
14:12:04 <gammafunk> yeah would be neat
14:12:47 <Lasty> I have a patch already mostly-complete, but it needs to adjust the book generation code
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14:13:18 <elliptic> Lasty: giving lesser randbooks for the minor gift sounds reasonable too, I was mainly thinking about changing the major gift but either/both would be cool
14:14:44 <Lasty> elliptic: I think that's a good idea.
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14:21:37 <gammafunk> !lg qw ddbe place=lair:5 ikiller=~qw -ttyrec
14:21:37 <Sequell> 1. qw, XL12 DDBe, T:13442: http://dobrazupa.org/ttyrec/qw/ 2014-09-19.04:21:16.ttyrec.bz2 2014-09-19.04:31:58.ttyrec.bz2
14:21:48 <gammafunk> for some reasing this query doesn't give the final ttyrec
14:21:55 <Lasty> Is there a way to place an item in wizmode so that you can see if you autopickup it?
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14:22:17 <Bloaxor> have you tried &%
14:22:20 <gammafunk> Lasty: &o doesn't work for this?
14:22:31 <gammafunk> I don't see why it wouldn't
14:22:38 <gammafunk> just move your char with x m
14:22:42 <Lasty> ah, hmm
14:22:44 <Lasty> right
14:22:46 <Lasty> thanks
14:24:08 <elliptic> !lg qw ddbe place=lair:5 ikiller=~qw x=rend
14:24:08 <Sequell> 1. [rend=2014-09-19 04:31:58 [20140819043158S]] qw the Severer (L12 DDBe of Trog), slain by qw's ghost on Lair:5 (gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake) on 2014-09-19 04:31:58, with 24342 points after 13442 turns and 0:10:41.
14:24:47 <elliptic> gammafunk: isn't 2014-09-19.04:31:58.ttyrec.bz2 the correct ttyrec there?
14:25:02 <gammafunk> elliptic: no, it ends with qw saving
14:25:04 <elliptic> or is it the previous one, I forget whether they are labeled by start or end
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14:25:15 <gammafunk> from what I presume is a message sent by you
14:25:48 <elliptic> gammafunk: what is the first ttyrec then?
14:25:54 <gammafunk> let me look
14:26:04 <elliptic> the first ttyrec might be the actual game
14:26:16 <gammafunk> well the second ends in mid-lair
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14:27:48 <elliptic> gammafunk: I can't take a look right now myself but I know footv doesn't handle bot games very well either
14:27:55 <gammafunk> elliptic: odd, yeah the first one is the complete game; footv tries to use the second one
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14:28:03 <Lasty> !learn del ru_to_do[3
14:28:04 <Sequell> Deleted ru to do[3/4]: mark magic staves as useless for one-handed shorties
14:28:06 <elliptic> the second one is the next game I assume
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14:28:23 <elliptic> and sequell is confused because it started immediately after the first one ended
14:28:29 <gammafunk> ah, got it
14:28:30 <elliptic> because script to autoplay
14:28:34 <elliptic> that is my guess at least
14:28:38 <elliptic> would be nice to fix it
14:29:09 <gammafunk> unluckily for qw, it met its own ghost in the loot chamber of my vault, along with the two nasty things
14:29:24 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-696-g06fd73c: Make staves check wieldability when checking uselessness 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06fd73c4b88c
14:30:53 <gammafunk> heh, it took a bunch of damage, so it zapped /hw repeatedly
14:31:03 <gammafunk> but while standing in the catoble's calcifying dust
14:31:21 <gammafunk> ran out of charges, tried to move back, but had already begun petrification
14:32:32 <gammafunk> ?/jettyplay
14:32:32 <Sequell> Matching entries (1): ttyrec[2]: Jettyplay is a pretty good cross platform .ttyrec player. http://nethack4.org/projects/jettyplay/
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14:37:39 <wheals> ugh, windows terminal doesn't tell me how big my term is so i can't be sure i'm testing on 80x24
14:38:29 <gammafunk> wheals: you don't use msys or cygwin at all?
14:38:39 <wheals> msysgit still uses windows term
14:38:57 <gammafunk> hrm, I guess a cygwin build would still be a posix build
14:39:04 <gammafunk> but you'd have a proper terminal at least
14:39:26 <PleasingFungus> sa thread makes a fr: gozag turns blood spatters into gold
14:39:28 <gammafunk> maybe just see if there's a better terminal program for windows
14:39:57 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: Are you actually on a vacation, or just in France, working?
14:40:13 <wheals> oh, it looks like i can find out in the layout tab of the properties window
14:40:26 <wheals> but i can't adjust size while the window is open
14:40:32 <PleasingFungus> just got back from ***exciting paris shopping***
14:40:35 <PleasingFungus> (I bought a shirt)
14:40:46 <gammafunk> Because so help me if you're in France on vacation, sitting in a hotel room typing in crawl irc when you could be seeing European cultural stuff..
14:40:51 <wheals> did you say hi to galehar
14:41:25 <PleasingFungus> I did not say hi to galehar. it is because of my furious anger toward him in all respects.
14:41:37 <PleasingFungus> no mercy!
14:41:46 <wheals> he doesn't talk to mimic-removers. also, american tourists
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14:42:43 <PleasingFungus> technically, I haven't removed mimics yet. or at all, really.
14:42:59 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:43:15 <wheals> %git :/[Ff]ountain
14:43:16 <Cheibriados> 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2104-gd078c63: Lua up an altar: Blood for the terrible Demon-God! (someflowers) 10(10 weeks ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d078c632a9a6
14:43:26 <wheals> %git :/door mimi
14:43:26 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-1779-g59d885a: Also remove hatch mimics 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59d885a2f50f
14:43:32 <PleasingFungus> feh
14:43:34 <gammafunk> great attribution in that commit title imo
14:43:48 <PleasingFungus> blood, demon gods, some flowers
14:43:56 <wheals> k's not that terrible!
14:45:37 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:46:11 <gammafunk> !function mutate
14:46:11 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc;hb=HEAD#l1364
14:46:27 <wheals> agh
14:46:38 <wheals> error: repository lacks the necessary blob to fall back on 3-way merge.
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14:47:45 <PleasingFungus> scrollback check complete. lasty was talking about the concern of people being unable to get runes (e.g. coc/geh flying-required runes with certain sacrifice combos, or slime:6 with evo+charms/tloc+earth sacrificed - the latter being a thing that actually happened!)
14:47:48 <Cheibriados> Bad item name: 'n_rpl'

14:47:48 <gammafunk> %??jelly name=blob ; n_rpl
14:47:53 <Cheibriados> unknown monster: "jelly name=blob n_rpl"

14:47:53 <gammafunk> %??jelly name=blob n_rpl
14:47:56 <gammafunk> oh well
14:48:18 <wheals> you can get slime:6 w/ ring of tele still
14:48:20 <wheals> and food
14:48:25 <PleasingFungus> heh
14:48:27 <wheals> "the 4.1 way"
14:48:30 <PleasingFungus> he ended up grabbing jorgrun
14:48:35 <PleasingFungus> and towing him all the way into slime:6
14:48:41 <gammafunk> ...wow
14:48:46 <wheals> "the spectrina way"
14:48:58 <PleasingFungus> I told him that was an option but I was joking, since I didn't think (a) jorgrun would spawn in his game and (b) he would still be alive by the time someone did slime:6
14:49:13 <potatolizart> gammafunk: well jorgrun can't actually do anything if you fly, resist petrify and don't stand next to walls
14:49:20 <potatolizart> he's kind of sad
14:49:30 <PleasingFungus> BEWARE the STAFF of CRUSHING
14:49:36 <Lasty> I suppose ring of teleport can technically deal with all the issues related to territory access under certain sacrifices
14:49:38 <gammafunk> should I retract my wow, is that what you're telling me
14:50:10 <gammafunk> hrm, I'm not sure you could ever get the geh rune
14:50:21 <gammafunk> if you had no transloc/evoc/earth
14:50:35 <Lasty> You can just walk up to the geh rune
14:50:44 <Lasty> unless there's a specific map I'm not aware of
14:50:46 <gammafunk> Lasty: not the end where it's behind a pit of lava
14:50:56 <gammafunk> it's a silly one-tile lava pit
14:51:00 <gammafunk> but it's there
14:51:06 <Lasty> power leap
14:51:10 <gammafunk> hrm
14:51:22 <gammafunk> that doesn't check -ctele?
14:51:31 <PleasingFungus> does jump attack?
14:51:45 <gammafunk> no, but jump attack is implemented with totally dif. code
14:51:49 <PleasingFungus> also, re geh end, that one also has a one-tile lava moat
14:52:01 <PleasingFungus> sure, but I'm talking about how it *should* work, ideologically
14:52:11 <gammafunk> yeah I was more just confirming
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14:52:41 <Lasty> power leap does not check -ctele
14:52:44 <gammafunk> yeah I guess some of the coc:7 maps would really be a problem though, wouldn't they
14:52:49 <Lasty> yes
14:53:07 <gammafunk> this kind of relates to: is sac evo just too much?
14:53:19 <gammafunk> or too much as an across-the-board sac of evo
14:53:31 <gammafunk> I guess special casing it a lot would also be undesirable
14:53:38 <wheals> heh
14:53:44 <gammafunk> otoh once could just say "well ou can't get 15 runes then"
14:53:48 <gammafunk> s/once/one/
14:53:53 <PleasingFungus> sac evo is a really hilariously huge sacrifice, yeah
14:53:54 <wheals> my 15-runer no evo ru dude got both coc_dpeg and geh_mu
14:53:56 <PleasingFungus> as it's currently implemented
14:53:59 <wheals> which are ones you were talking about
14:54:07 <Lasty> because Evo covers so crazy much stuff
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14:54:12 <wheals> used ice form and POG, respectively
14:54:14 <gammafunk> coc_dpeg would be arguably doable with tele
14:54:20 <gammafunk> but like the long windy cave maps
14:54:24 <gammafunk> grunt has one, and there's the one by mu
14:54:26 <gammafunk> those two
14:54:28 <Lasty> sac evo could cover wands/rods/misc I suppose
14:54:41 <gammafunk> and not armour, jewellery?
14:54:49 <gammafunk> it's kind of just weird I guess
14:54:55 <gammafunk> I mean we could say "not evo flight"
14:55:09 <gammafunk> but that's just a hack I guess; I really don't have strong opinions
14:55:19 <Lasty> well, armour/jewellery uses the (a) menu
14:55:26 <PleasingFungus> ??pog
14:55:26 <Sequell> passage of golubria[1/3]: A spell that lets you set up controlled teleport traps on the floor. Acts like the portal gun in Portal, but without the fancy physics. Something walks in one end and appears out the other, player and monsters included. Level 4 Tloc, in books of Warp and Burglary. Can't be cast on -cTele levels. Not affected by -Tele or stasis.
14:55:26 <Lasty> as opposed to (v)
14:55:30 <PleasingFungus> o
14:55:40 <wheals> personally i think it's ok if you miss out on a rune because of your choices
14:55:41 <gammafunk> hrm, yeah good point
14:55:54 <wheals> as long as there are still 3 available
14:55:57 <gammafunk> yes this is also a reasonable position imo
14:56:05 <gammafunk> I mean you did choose to sacrifice them
14:56:10 <PleasingFungus> welllll
14:56:14 <gammafunk> but then there's the thing of is it sacrificing too much
14:56:20 <PleasingFungus> you didn't necessarily know that some runes would require certain abilities
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14:56:25 <Lasty> and no one sacrifice blocks any runes
14:56:25 <gammafunk> for that I'd defer to the "Ru designer"
14:56:32 <gammafunk> a shadowy, mysterious group
14:56:40 <gammafunk> *designers
14:56:51 <wheals> perhaps power leap could go through walls...?
14:56:58 <wheals> that would solve slime:6 at least
14:56:58 <PleasingFungus> Lengthly Antagonizing Socialist Terrorism Yollective
14:56:59 <gammafunk> dang
14:57:15 <gammafunk> wheals: so like you're the kool-aid man?
14:57:21 <PleasingFungus> that would be..... extremely strong
14:57:32 <wheals> well, transparent ones
14:57:36 <PleasingFungus> yeah I figured
14:57:38 <PleasingFungus> still
14:57:41 <PleasingFungus> does anything else currently go through transparent walls?
14:57:51 <wheals> LOS
14:57:52 -!- potatolizart is now known as potatolizard
14:58:03 <wheals> but no, nothing should
14:58:11 <wheals> which is why it's not a great solution
14:58:25 <Lasty> Power leap going through walls makes even less sense than cblink doing it -- unless it digs too
14:58:39 -!- Finwe^ is now known as Finwe
14:58:41 <wheals> make it go through grates and make some of the walls in slime:6 grates
14:58:54 -!- Finwe is now known as Finwe^
14:59:05 <gammafunk> Power Puree
14:59:57 <gammafunk> Well you don't want a situation where it's never a good idea to sacrifice evo, and I'm not sure if that's already the case
15:00:35 <wheals> if you're fine with "just" winning it's fine
15:01:02 <PleasingFungus> pfft, winning
15:01:11 <gammafunk> !lg magicpoints
15:01:11 <Sequell> 1337. magicpoints the Basher (L14 NaWz of Ashenzari), demolished by a death yak on Lair:8 on 2014-09-19 01:11:38, with 41750 points after 15213 turns and 1:43:15.
15:01:14 <PleasingFungus> !!!
15:01:21 <gammafunk> !lg magicpoint god=ru
15:01:21 <Sequell> No games for magicpoint (god=ru).
15:01:24 <PleasingFungus> as a numerologist, I approve
15:01:25 <gammafunk> !lg magicpoints god=ru
15:01:26 <Sequell> 4. magicpoints the Unseen (L13 NaSk of Ru), slain by a griffon (called by a young spriggan druid) on Lair:8 (minmay_lair_end_enchanted_forest) on 2014-09-18 17:03:21, with 25604 points after 8946 turns and 1:41:49.
15:01:37 <gammafunk> !lm magicpointss
15:01:37 <Sequell> No milestones for magicpointss.
15:01:38 <gammafunk> !lm magicpoints
15:01:39 <Sequell> 9490. [2014-09-19 06:45:10] magicpoints the Phalangite (L22 NaAE of Ru) killed Boris on turn 27871. (Vaults:5)
15:01:51 <gammafunk> she was using the heal thing to improve turns
15:01:57 <PleasingFungus> I think ru might actually kind of have "trog syndrome", insofar as locking you out of various skills becomes more of an issue as the game grows longer
15:02:12 <PleasingFungus> heal thing?
15:02:19 <gammafunk> the ru ability
15:02:43 <wheals> i think the ru powers scale quite well though
15:02:48 <Lasty> PleasingFungus: That's intentional: what you give up now gives you more power now at an increasing cost as more options would have become available
15:03:17 <Lasty> the passives definitely scale well
15:05:43 <wheals> hm, what's the name of the layout with all the doors that gammafunk hates?
15:05:44 <PleasingFungus> ??ru
15:05:44 <Sequell> ru[1/6]: Ru rewards adherents who renounce the world through making sacrifices with great power. Worshippers are periodically offered a choice of three sacrifices, and gain piety for accepting one of them. The offers are refreshed more slowly if you ignore them, more quickly with faith.
15:05:57 <PleasingFungus> wheals: this_layout_kills_gammafunks
15:06:03 <PleasingFungus> alternately, something like cityville
15:06:05 <PleasingFungus> I forget
15:06:44 <PleasingFungus> oh, I forgot about ru's *** ability
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15:08:13 <elliptic> btw, I sort of think that Ru shouldn't refresh unaccepted offers, at least not the way it currently works
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15:08:59 <PleasingFungus> !bug 8942
15:08:59 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8942
15:08:59 <elliptic> maybe you should have an option of declining all current offers, say (which costs some piety) and only then does the timer start towards a new offer
15:09:01 <PleasingFungus> wheals: ^
15:09:03 <PleasingFungus> er
15:09:04 <Lasty> elliptic: as in, you're forced to choose on of the three sacrifices eventually if you want to progress
15:09:17 <elliptic> Lasty: that or what I just wrote, yeah
15:09:22 <Lasty> hm
15:09:30 <Lasty> What do you not like about the current system?
15:10:37 -!- FatShack is now known as TendaAway
15:10:43 <elliptic> well, for one thing, I had no clue that the offers would be replaced by new ones after some amount of time until Basil told me
15:11:05 <elliptic> it made perfect sense to me that those were my options and I had to choose one to proceed with Ru worship
15:11:10 <Lasty> Someone, possibly Basil, said the same thing
15:11:28 <elliptic> rather than having an extra invisible option "wait around for better options"
15:11:33 <wheals> !lm circular r
15:11:33 <Sequell> 953. [2014-09-17 23:34:40] circular the Arsonist (L18 KoWn of Ru) killed Frances on turn 46785. (Snake:4)
15:12:03 <elliptic> it is also pretty hard to judge whether you are likely to get better options without knowing the full list of them
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15:12:55 <elliptic> so that places more burden on the player - the three options that are given are described, but players will also want to look up what other options they might get offered in the future that are better
15:13:06 <PleasingFungus> hm
15:13:08 <PleasingFungus> !bug 8744
15:13:08 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8744
15:13:15 <PleasingFungus> I forgot about this but it's 0.16 now
15:13:43 <Bloaxor> tfw you wanna play Dg but they're still eck
15:13:59 <elliptic> on the other hand I do understand that getting stuck with 3 really awful options given your current character build and being stuck with them is not much fun
15:14:06 <wheals> you should also apply one of infiniplex's years-old patches
15:14:10 <PleasingFungus> bloax, you know nagging isn't actually endearing, right?
15:14:39 <Bloaxor> sleep deprivation isn't enlightening either
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15:17:55 <wheals> sacrifice sleep?
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15:19:07 <Bloaxor> int deteoriation:2
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15:25:12 <PleasingFungus> +1 @ 2,3,5,6,8,9...26,27 gives 18 stat-ups to dg, vs current 22.
15:26:05 <wheals> huh
15:26:13 <wheals> who got rid of "floater" for djinn
15:26:35 * wheals wonders if it was himself
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15:28:50 <PleasingFungus> what
15:28:58 <wheals> !lg * title~~float
15:28:59 <PleasingFungus> they weren't *that* shit.
15:28:59 <Sequell> 1. Jazzimus the Farming Plane Floater (L27 DjAr of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-06-29 07:02:20, with 6830632 points after 279049 turns and 1d+3:11:56.
15:29:52 <PleasingFungus> oh. that reminds me
15:30:00 <PleasingFungus> how do people feel about halving zin's hell effect resistance?
15:30:21 <PleasingFungus> could buff him in some other way - I wouldn't mind making recite a little better at low invo, for example - but that's optional
15:30:37 <HoneyLocust> People dont need less incentive to worshipe Zin
15:30:37 <wheals> so you get 0% as many effects, instead of 0%?
15:30:42 <PleasingFungus> 50%
15:30:47 <PleasingFungus> at 200 piety
15:30:53 <wheals> joking, i know :P
15:31:05 <PleasingFungus> more like a WHEALLY BIG PAIN
15:32:02 <elliptic> PleasingFungus: I don't have a feeling about zin's hell effect resistance one way or another but it makes zero sense to compensate for a very-late-game change like this by making early game better (if you want to make recite better at low invo anyway then that's fine ofc)
15:32:21 <PleasingFungus> true
15:32:42 <PleasingFungus> I do like both ideas independently, but you're right that they don't have any real connection; I yield that point
15:33:10 <elliptic> also I hope the reason for wanting to make zin's hell effect resistance not be 100% so that Zin worshippers can scum hell effects too :P
15:33:23 <elliptic> s/so/is so/
15:33:30 <PleasingFungus> that is a funny reason. it is not my reason but I like it anyway
15:33:39 <PleasingFungus> just hit 5 enough and even zinnites can scum hell effects!
15:33:54 <PleasingFungus> bonus: vit decreases piety & hunger both
15:34:01 <PleasingFungus> it's flawless!
15:40:24 <wheals> beautiful
15:40:36 <wheals> check out replace_all and _replace_all_in_string
15:40:42 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:40:50 <gammafunk> !function replace_all_in_string
15:40:50 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/format.cc;hb=HEAD#l234
15:40:57 <gammafunk> !function replace_all
15:40:57 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/format.cc;hb=HEAD#l234
15:41:10 <wheals> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/stringutil.cc;hb=HEAD#l259
15:41:20 <wheals> is the correct link, Sequell gets confused on stuff like that
15:41:57 <gammafunk> doesn't the standard library have methods for stuff like this?
15:42:08 <gammafunk> (or whatever I should be calling the "standard library")
15:42:19 <wheals> "probably"
15:43:05 <Lasty> elliptic: how about a "reject sacrifices" button that doesn't cost peity?
15:43:23 <Lasty> And your "next sacrifice" timer doesn't increment until you use it
15:43:54 <elliptic> Lasty: I think that would be an improvement over the current system at least
15:44:02 <PleasingFungus> the standard library? you mean, our standard string utility function library?
15:44:20 <Lasty> elliptic: enough of an improvement, or is the piety loss central to the idea?
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15:45:25 <elliptic> well, I do think that at least a small piety loss might be a good idea
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15:45:55 <elliptic> mainly I just want to disincentivize players looking up all 13 possible sacrifices, choosing which ones they want, and then scumming until they get them
15:46:43 <elliptic> as things stand, you can do the same sacrifices every Ru game if you are patient enough
15:47:28 <elliptic> this isn't really any different from how you will get gifted every spell in the game by Sif if you wait long enough, but I don't think that's a stellar feature of Sif either
15:47:55 <elliptic> even a very small piety cost would help with this, and I think be flavorful? though I don't fully understand Ru flavor
15:48:07 <Lasty> elliptic: if you ignore sacrifices, it takes longer before they get offered again. Scumming for your favorites is very expensive in opportunity cost.
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15:48:23 <elliptic> sure, I'm not saying it is a good strategy
15:48:46 <gammafunk> Well might it permanently reduce your actual piety (a small amount)?
15:48:48 <elliptic> getting benefits of Ru piety earlier is obviously good
15:49:30 <gammafunk> I'm not sure how the hidden counter used by Ru for offering sacrifices is referred to
15:49:34 <gammafunk> since it's not piety
15:50:01 <Lasty> sacrifice timeout
15:50:02 <Lasty> ?
15:50:28 <gammafunk> yeah, I guess the timeout; are you referring to this rejection ability increasing the timeout or actually reducing piety?
15:51:14 <Lasty> I'm a little wary about charging piety for anything under Ru, since it raises the total number of sacrifices you need
15:51:54 <gammafunk> yeah, my thought was just that maybe that would be a strong enough disincentive though; you'd only reject if you were totally sure you couldn't take any of ther offered set
15:52:10 <Lasty> It (effectively) already increases the timeout, but I think elliptic is saying it should cost piety too
15:52:11 <PleasingFungus> "scumming" to play badly sounds like pudding farming redux
15:52:14 <PleasingFungus> a punishment in itself
15:52:46 <elliptic> PleasingFungus: in this case "scumming" was a bad choice of word and really I just meant "waiting longer to get to ******"
15:53:53 <gammafunk> If you reject a sacrifice, you get N instances of random god wrath
15:53:56 <elliptic> e.g. currently I have quite a lot of flexibility in what sacrifices I make if I'm willing to get to 6* piety a few XLs late
15:54:51 <elliptic> and I sort of feel like the god would work better if you had less flexibility in that, so that you would be less able to plan out which sacrifices you do and don't want
15:55:35 <Lasty> elliptic: hmm. My current character has had to delay 6* considerably due to not finding acceptable sacrifices -- and the timeout penalty keeps increasing, so every reroll takes longer rthan the last
15:55:59 <Lasty> I agree the if it's easy to get a planned set there needs to be a change
15:56:29 <gammafunk> yeah given how disparate the effects of the sacrifice can be for any given build, making it optimal for the player to game for the best sacrifices is not fun
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15:56:56 <elliptic> Lasty: well, in that case we can test things more and keep this in mind, if we agree about that :)
15:56:59 <PleasingFungus> elliptic: yeah okay I'm with you there, it does feel... ideologically unsound in some sense
15:57:13 <gammafunk> !lg Lasty won god=ru
15:57:13 <Sequell> No games for Lasty (won god=ru).
15:57:16 <gammafunk> !!!!!!!
15:57:27 <wheals> !lg devteam won ru s=name
15:57:28 <Sequell> One game for devteam (won ru): wheals
15:57:31 <gammafunk> omg
15:57:34 <gammafunk> the shame
15:57:35 <wheals> clearly i am the only one qualified
15:57:49 <gammafunk> *wheals* has the first win for a god you implemented Lasty?
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15:57:53 <gammafunk> you may never recover from that
15:58:05 <wheals> personally, i took sacrifices almost immediately in both my games i think
15:58:07 <elliptic> Lasty: I do think that a change to make it clearer to the player that you *can* get new options offered would be good regardless, either the active rejection ability you suggested or improving text about this in some way
15:58:09 <PleasingFungus> !lg * ru won 1
15:58:11 <Sequell> 1/11. DrKe the Wrestler (L25 TrGl of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-09-16 07:54:55, with 1683744 points after 66679 turns and 2:38:54.
15:58:11 <PleasingFungus> !hs * ru
15:58:12 <Sequell> 242. joy1999 the Intangible (L27 OpTm of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-09-17 14:46:23, with 17538351 points after 88219 turns and 9:22:46.
15:58:14 <wheals> i too was surprised when i learned you could wait for a new set
15:58:19 <wheals> !hs * ru -2
15:58:20 <Sequell> 241/242. wheals the Grand Master (L27 DrTm of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-09-18 16:35:43, with 13167153 points after 121725 turns and 6:48:29.
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15:58:22 <PleasingFungus> ...optm, huh?
15:58:25 <PleasingFungus> oh, nice, wheals
15:58:31 <PleasingFungus> !hs * ru -log
15:58:32 <Sequell> 242. joy1999, XL27 OpTm, T:88219: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/joy1999/morgue-joy1999-20140917-144623.txt
15:58:35 <gammafunk> OpTm is a Power Combo
15:58:39 <gammafunk> highly recommended
15:59:06 <PleasingFungus> an op without stealth. sad as h*ck
15:59:31 <gammafunk> !lg . optm won -log
15:59:32 <Sequell> 1. gammafunk, XL27 OpTm, T:219610: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20121228-024315.txt
15:59:43 <wheals> hm, just noticed the server
15:59:53 <wheals> i guess ru is a critical buff to skilled korean speedrunners
15:59:54 <gammafunk> oh I did train stealth
16:00:45 <gammafunk> !lm magicpoints
16:00:45 <Sequell> 9490. [2014-09-19 06:45:10] magicpoints the Phalangite (L22 NaAE of Ru) killed Boris on turn 27871. (Vaults:5)
16:00:55 <gammafunk> if mp doesn't splat, that will probably be a high score run
16:01:09 <gammafunk> well Ru high score run
16:01:12 <gammafunk> !hs * NaAE
16:01:13 <Sequell> 1842. UglyThing the Archmage (L27 NaAE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-04-17 04:17:11, with 19411992 points after 78765 turns and 17:50:15.
16:01:21 <reaverb> Oh, did the whole "better weapon are actually worse weapons for your orcish minons due to delay" thing ever get fixed?
16:01:21 <gammafunk> !hs * --AE
16:01:22 <Sequell> 75738. elliptic the Archmage (L27 DEAE of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 14 runes on 2012-07-21 15:52:53, with 32355846 points after 39543 turns and 9:01:01.
16:03:21 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: crawl's combat system has not yet been overhauled, no
16:03:23 <PleasingFungus> someday
16:03:25 <PleasingFungus> someday
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-697-g6617749: Move jewellery farther up in the inventory (simmarine). 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6617749aba9e
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03Cedor02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-698-g6a06390: Stealth bar 10(9 months ago, 1 file, 23+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a0639066d3d
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-699-g10b4a65: Clean up previous commit, use same breakpoints as the new word system. 10(79 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 26-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=10b4a6583212
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-700-g4ff2473: XTAHUA DOES NOT LIKE TO 'OPEN DOORS!' XTAHUA PREFERS TO SMASH THEM! (Patashu) 10(57 minutes ago, 6 files, 42+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ff2473382ba
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03nagdon02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-701-g91f9442: Clarify why teleportation/hasting is unavailable 10(5 weeks ago, 11 files, 161+ 59-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=91f944217561
16:04:14 <Cheibriados> 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-702-gf4f471d: Correct fertiliser type for exotic species (#8886). 10(5 minutes ago, 4 files, 39+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4f471db70ab
16:04:16 <reaverb> PleasingFungus: That seems like pretty spoilerly to me.
16:05:10 <Lasty> gammafunk: Yeah, I wanted the first Ru win, but after DrKe got it, I stopped trying so hard
16:05:16 <Lasty> and I've had no time to play what with all the patches :p
16:05:24 <elliptic> reaverb: the correct fix is to prevent players from giving equipment to their orcs, anyway :P
16:05:26 <wheals> !learn add goodcode case SP_OCTOPODE: return "Wriggl";
16:05:26 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: yes, monster combat math is very unintuitive
16:05:26 <Sequell> goodcode[12/12]: case SP_OCTOPODE: return "Wriggl";
16:05:32 <PleasingFungus> elliptic: wow, EXTREMELY incorrect
16:05:53 <elliptic> PleasingFungus: okay overhauling combat system sounds pretty correct too
16:05:55 <Lasty> gammafunk: check the second to last event in DrKe's win
16:06:18 <gammafunk> !lm DrKe won god=ru -
16:06:19 <PleasingFungus> reaverb: n.b. that this is also a problem with new tukima's
16:06:19 <Sequell> No keyword '-'
16:06:21 * wheals is looking forward to the first Stalking Fertiliser.
16:06:21 <gammafunk> !lm DrKe won god=ru -2
16:06:22 <Sequell> 63/64. [2014-09-16 07:51:14] DrKe the Wrestler (L25 TrGl of Ru) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5)
16:06:28 <gammafunk> !lm DrKe won god=ru -log
16:06:29 <Sequell> DrKe, XL25 TrGl, T:66679: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/DrKe/morgue-DrKe-20140916-075455.txt
16:06:42 <PleasingFungus> taking away an orc warlord's greatsword - not sure it actually makes them more dangerous, but it's not a dramatic decrease in threat, since their base damage is decent and the delay on a greatsword is also decent
16:06:42 <gammafunk> heh
16:06:48 <PleasingFungus> I forget what warlords spawn with
16:07:44 <PleasingFungus> should probably fsim at some point. would depend on player AC.
16:07:45 <gammafunk> hrm, does it take 20 aut to use stairs, but still one turn?
16:07:47 <PleasingFungus> anyway.
16:07:51 <gammafunk> I guess that would make sense
16:07:53 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: 2.4, isn't it?
16:08:02 <PleasingFungus> I remember it being something weird
16:08:23 <elliptic> it displays as 2.4 but that is misleading
16:08:24 <gammafunk> well my question is (and it's a silly question I guess) does it take e.g. multiple turns or multiples of 10 aut
16:08:28 <gammafunk> and clearly it's aut
16:08:42 <gammafunk> don't know why I thought it was multiple turns
16:09:00 <PleasingFungus> probably because someone said it that way, since no one knows what aut are unless they've played way too much
16:09:07 <PleasingFungus> but 'multiple turns' is an intuitive way to phras eit
16:09:08 <PleasingFungus> anyway
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16:09:19 <reaverb> !tell Patashu look at %git 4ff2473 :D
16:09:19 <Sequell> reaverb: OK, I'll let patashu know.
16:09:22 <gammafunk> also
16:09:24 <gammafunk> 60019 | Slime:6  | Noticed the royal jelly 60112 | Slime:6  | Noticed a titan shaped Royal Jelly
16:09:37 <elliptic> I forget how it exactly works but I know that monsters definitely don't have the full 2.4 aut to hit you as you descend
16:09:38 <gammafunk> I guess there's not really a better way to note that
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16:09:45 <elliptic> er 24 aut
16:09:48 <Bloaxor> it takes two turns to take stairs iirc
16:10:02 <Bloaxor> (as in turns turns)
16:10:19 <gammafunk> Bloaxor: don't think that's true; at least it isn't true for the d:1 upstairs
16:10:22 <gammafunk> as that log shows
16:10:44 <elliptic> I think maybe it is 1.4 as you descend and then 1.0 on the new level (normal action time) but it might be even stranger
16:11:10 <Bloaxor> it takes 2 turns to go up/down a floor
16:11:13 <Bloaxor> probably 1 turn to win
16:11:24 <gammafunk> that's weird
16:11:28 <elliptic> that code is exceptionally fiddly and there's no good way to figure out what is going on without placing monsters on both levels and counting how many times they hit you several times
16:12:33 <elliptic> gammafunk: this distinction is why we need to make player turns not be a thing, btw
16:13:24 <gammafunk> elliptic: yes, I understand, but my thought about aut and scoring is that it will make some things worse; I'm worried that the fast-movement species will get a significant scoring advantage
16:13:42 <Bloaxor> fast moving can be compensated
16:13:53 <Bloaxor> have you thought about finesse+short blades+VS however
16:14:19 <gammafunk> I guess it depends on what's the focus of the removal of turns; if scoring is considered basically very secondary the improvements of dropping turns as a thing we track, then I guess it's more clear-cut
16:14:23 <elliptic> gammafunk: well, part of the plan is to give some species a score multiplier
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16:14:37 <wheals> not making auxes depend on attack speed sounds sensible too
16:14:38 <gammafunk> yeah I guess that could mitigate it sufficiently
16:14:48 <wheals> but i guess that's orthogonal
16:15:45 <gammafunk> it'd have to be very simple so players could convert aut to score in a simple way; so it wouldn't be helpful to have something that continuously factored in current move speed for purposes of normalizing score I guess
16:15:58 <gammafunk> even though that would allow e.g. chei worshipers to get good scores
16:15:59 <potatolizard> at least people would stop killing things with aux attacks as VS
16:16:06 <elliptic> gammafunk: the main drawbacks I know about for aut scoring are (1) Chei becomes really bad for speedruns (2) using haste while traveling across the dungeon becomes a thing (though glow/hunger make this a bit unclear)
16:16:19 <gammafunk> right
16:16:32 <gammafunk> also boots of running are a problem to an extent
16:16:43 <elliptic> gammafunk: yeah, the plan was just to have a simple score multiplier for each species with nonstandard movespeed
16:16:52 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:17:08 <elliptic> gammafunk: I've been thinking of changing boots of running anyway, since they are sort of lame as they are
16:17:09 <reaverb> gammafunk: Maybe implement that "boots of running give evocable switftness" idea.
16:17:13 <gammafunk> elliptic: and you also think that any kind of more elaborate multiplier that looked at one's current move speed is just a bad idea?
16:17:17 <elliptic> ^ yeah that was my idea
16:17:30 <elliptic> gammafunk: yeah, that's effectively what player turns already are
16:17:47 <gammafunk> yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable
16:18:03 <gammafunk> also the evocable swift thing for boots of running
16:18:22 <gammafunk> altough some differentiation from the spell might be nice, if that's possible, but that's really another issue
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16:18:56 <Lasty> the code that handles conflicting mutations crashes when the mutations are intrensic. I assume that's a bug, right?
16:19:19 <gammafunk> MPA hasn't been around, but he was a strong proponent of removing ctele; if we're going to change scoring it should probably be in the same release that removes ctele/-ctele if we're going to do that
16:19:57 <gammafunk> s/change scoring/change scoring to use aut/
16:19:57 <wheals> Lasty, pls don't fix it until i test out johnny0's thing
16:19:58 <elliptic> gammafunk: just because of all the turns that cTele saves in pan and leaving hells in speedruns?
16:20:03 <Lasty> wheals: ok
16:20:04 <wheals> i want a way to crash on demand besides &ctrl-c
16:20:04 <gammafunk> yeah that's my thinking
16:20:11 <gammafunk> ctele saves tons of turns
16:20:17 <Lasty> wheals:  I've got a short-term fix anyway
16:20:28 <gammafunk> so scores not very comparable pre/post removal
16:20:34 <wheals> oh wait, his branch forked a month ago so it doesn't have ru anyway
16:20:39 <wheals> so fix away!! :D
16:20:53 <Lasty> haha
16:20:53 <Lasty> ok
16:21:01 <Bloaxor> well neither are they from before and after the summoning changes
16:21:25 <gammafunk> Bloaxor: well purplered kind of proved that they actually are :p
16:21:43 <gammafunk> and in my opinion sapher's score is beatable with summons in trunk anyhow
16:22:18 <gammafunk> Removing ctele doesn't have to happen of course, if we don't want it to; I see the logic of removing it, but would also miss it
16:22:18 <elliptic> gammafunk: well, the fact that speedruns have been made easier after they were made harder doesn't really change the point
16:23:25 <gammafunk> Well my point was only that it'd be ideal to make both changes in the same release if we can do that
16:23:30 <wheals> !tell johnny0 error when building your branch: http://pastebin.ca/raw/2842942
16:23:30 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let johnny0 know.
16:24:03 <gammafunk> I know PleasingFungus doesn't want to remove it, but I'm not sure what the prevailing opinion on ctele is at this point
16:24:34 <wheals> !tell johnny0 on msysgit windows XP SP3, if any of that is relevant
16:24:34 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let johnny0 know.
16:24:50 <gammafunk> I think that the aut-based scoring seems pretty good though; kind of sad that it takes chei out of the picture for score, but there are a lot of benefits
16:25:03 <wheals> !tell johnny0 used "make -j3 debug" to build, if that's relevant either!
16:25:03 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let johnny0 know.
16:25:22 <elliptic> I'm in favor of removing cTele but don't feel that strongly about it
16:26:08 <elliptic> I think the V:5 changes helped make cTele more relevant outside of extended/speedruns
16:26:18 <Lasty> gammafunk: would it be possible to keep track of the amount of time  spent moving and number of steps and use it to factor movement speed out of final score even under aut-scoring?
16:26:41 <gammafunk> Lasty: yeah but elliptic's point is that turns are basicaly designed to do that
16:26:57 <gammafunk> and they are good at that when it comes to movement, but bad when it comes to tracking e.g. melee
16:27:03 <Lasty> right
16:27:08 <gammafunk> and then they're a thing we have to track in addition, and it creates confusion
16:27:14 <elliptic> I mean, player turns also have weirdnesses with melee and you could in theory try to fix those by only considering movement
16:27:29 <gammafunk> heh
16:27:51 <elliptic> but even just with movement there is weird stuff, like how everyone thought that chei/nagas was a speedrun tech because regeneration
16:28:30 <wheals> bread reform
16:28:36 <elliptic> and part of the reason behind switching to aut scoring is so that we can forget about player turns, not so that we can replace them with something
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16:28:40 <gammafunk> yeah, a simpler system is probably better than one that's absolutely as fair as possible
16:29:34 <gammafunk> even with chei you could argue that not counting those aut spent moving is unfair since the melee chei gives is way more powerful than what you can normal achieve
16:30:23 <gammafunk> ??plan
16:30:23 <Sequell> plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans
16:30:28 <wheals> well, some gods will inevitably be better than others at some things, including high scores, is my thinking
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16:30:38 <wheals> i don't play for score though
16:30:38 <Bloaxor> well uh
16:30:42 <Bloaxor> enjoy chei in extended
16:31:14 <elliptic> wheals: yeah, that's why I don't mind the "slow god" becoming bad at speedruns
16:31:16 <Bloaxor> i'm sure that bonus damage is gonna be great when tormenthellfriers get twice the moves per step
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16:32:03 <Bloaxor> i mind "the slow god" being bad at speedruns because it's actually pretty fucking nervewrecking to do a good chei 15-rune speedrun
16:32:03 <wheals> !hs * yred
16:32:04 <Sequell> 60368. tlatlagkaus the Vine Barricade (L27 VSFi of Yredelemnul), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-06-07 23:28:18, with 23045061 points after 65217 turns and 8:01:23.
16:32:26 <gammafunk> !hs * xom
16:32:26 <Sequell> 79530. Yermak the Ninja (L22 SpCK of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-09-05 03:17:27, with 34725127 points after 41797 turns and 10:14:31.
16:32:37 <wheals> xom >>> yred confirmed
16:32:44 <gammafunk> ...yermak
16:33:26 <gammafunk> all of yermak's games from now on should be where he has that perma-invis bug he accidentally uncovered that one time
16:34:11 <Tedronai> if you make scoring aut based, top 10 will be all Yermak
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16:34:30 <wheals> !hs yermak !sp
16:34:30 <Sequell> 569. Yermak the Ninja (L27 HaBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-05-13 17:46:11, with 30380526 points after 48370 turns and 10:00:51.
16:34:31 <gammafunk> Tedronai: well it'd have species-modifiers, this scoring system
16:34:46 <gammafunk> so it would remove the "penalty" he gets from fast weapon melee
16:34:54 <gammafunk> but not give him a bonus due to sp
16:35:02 <gammafunk> *sp movement
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16:35:35 <gammafunk> and speaking of players we need to nerf: Tedronai ; time for some Trog nerfs
16:35:54 <gammafunk> !streak Tedronai
16:35:54 <Tedronai> do it, I don't play any more Be's :D
16:35:55 <Sequell> Tedronai has 30 consecutive wins (HOBe, DDBe, DsBe, TrBe, TeBe, LOBe, HuBe, KoBe, MiBe, GrBe, OgBe, HaBe, MfBe, NaBe, CeBe, DrBe, VSBe, HEBe, SpBe, VpBe, FoBe, GhBe, FeBe, DEBe, OpBe, MuBe, GhMo, MiWn, TrAK, HODK), and can keep going!
16:35:59 <gammafunk> sickening
16:36:09 <Bloaxor> >trog nerf
16:36:10 <Tedronai> next is DgWn
16:36:15 <gammafunk> haha
16:36:19 <Bloaxor> >Gh/Vp/MuBe
16:36:23 <Bloaxor> >implying
16:36:56 <wheals> >mfw bloax drags dumb 4chan in
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16:37:36 <Tedronai> btw is the Dg buff going into trunk or not ? :D
16:37:45 <gammafunk> are you a fan of the proposal?
16:37:49 <Tedronai> no
16:38:08 <Tedronai> im content with current Dg
16:38:14 <wheals> !hs Tedronai dgbe
16:38:14 <Sequell> No games for Tedronai (dgbe).
16:38:15 <gammafunk> Dg don't need a buff, don't need more stat control, both?
16:38:28 <Tedronai> both
16:38:46 <elliptic> it sounded like the proposal involves giving Dg more than 9 chosen stat increases?
16:38:59 <gammafunk> yes, making all their stats chosen stats
16:39:06 <gammafunk> and also giving them more of them
16:39:15 <gammafunk> choose 2 stats every 2 levels iirc?
16:39:27 <Tedronai> that was the latest I heard
16:39:34 <elliptic> I'm heavily against giving more prompts at levelup, if you want to do something like this then I'd suggest making each prompt raise a stat by 2
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16:39:47 <gammafunk> yeah that does sound better
16:40:14 <gammafunk> I'd defer to people with strong opinions about Dg as to whether the change is a needed/good one
16:40:22 <elliptic> it doesn't sound particularly interesting to me
16:40:53 <Lasty> elliptic: the patch does do that
16:40:54 <elliptic> personally I don't feel like Dg is very strong and I don't find it very fun either, but this change doesn't interest me
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16:42:37 <elliptic> ??sid
16:42:37 <Sequell> stat gain[2/2]: Ce sd/4 | DD si/4 | DE i/4 | Dg sid/2 | Dr sid/4 | Ds sid/4 | Fe id/5 | Fo si/4 | Gh s/5 | Gr si/4 | Ha d/5 | HE id/3 | HO s/5 | Hu sid/4 | Ko sd/5 | Mf sid/5 | Mi sd/4 | Mu none | Na sid/4 | Og s/3 | Op sid/5 | Sp id/5 | Te sid/4 | Tr s/3 | Vp none | VS sd/4
16:42:59 <Bloaxor> trust me when i say that the +2 stat prompt every 2 levels is very unintrusive
16:43:14 <Bloaxor> it takes a really long time to get those two levels after you're past XL6
16:43:15 <Lasty> It's not trog strong or spriggan strong, but Dg is pretty strong as midrange racres go
16:43:18 <Lasty> *races
16:43:38 <elliptic> sure, as long as it isn't 22 separate prompts then that part is fine
16:44:52 <Bloaxor> well i'm pretty serious when i say that even with this Dg isn't as much of a powerhouse as Mi/VS
16:45:01 <Bloaxor> but apparently Dg is already a better race than those so ha ha ha ha
16:45:12 <Tedronai> does it need to be?
16:45:17 <Bloaxor> no
16:45:37 <Lasty> I hope not - Mi/Vs is fun, but silly-easy
16:45:42 <elliptic> as I said I agree that Dg can stand a buff, but I doubt this change (which I am fine with trying if other people like) will make me play Dg any more than I do
16:45:50 <Bloaxor> but people are really flailing with their arms out as if some holy balance is being broken
16:46:02 <Bloaxor> it would make me play Dg more than i do
16:46:05 <Bloaxor> (which is just about never)
16:46:21 <Bloaxor> because the concept of having complete control over a large pool of stats is really sweet
16:46:23 <gammafunk> we should ask Zot (aka Dpeg) what he thinks about it
16:46:45 <Bloaxor> he's the guy who came up with making it +2 stat choices in the first place
16:47:28 <gammafunk> oh, but didn't someone else make this proposal?
16:47:33 <Bloaxor> yes
16:47:39 <gammafunk> oh it morphed into that
16:47:40 <Bloaxor> we had a little discussion of it here
16:47:58 <Bloaxor> i only added another prompt at xl27 because i like my aesthetics
16:48:01 <gammafunk> well I don't know if the big Dg work dpeg had planned is really going anywhere
16:48:03 <Bloaxor> and xl27 bears a good one
16:48:39 <Bloaxor> (seeing "You have reached level 27, the final one!" and getting exactly nothing just doesn't feel that good)
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16:49:25 <gammafunk> you still get a stat prompt...
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16:50:43 <Lasty> no, it disables the every-3-levels prompt
16:51:05 <Bloaxor> and replaces it with % 2 instead
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16:51:27 <Bloaxor> and unless i'm code blind (which i likely am at this point) then there's no special case for XL27
16:52:07 <gammafunk> ah ok
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17:00:53 <elliptic> btw I think it would be better to have +3 to a stat every 3 levels than to have +2 to a stat every 2 levels
17:01:08 <elliptic> both because fewer prompts and because more consistent with other species
17:01:12 <elliptic> that's just a detail though
17:02:47 <Bloaxor> well demigod is the speshul enlightened athetist race
17:03:25 <Bloaxor> so perhaps variation isn't that bad
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17:04:01 <Lasty> there's enough precident that intrinsic mutations never get changed, so I'm just going to avoid giving conflicting Ru mutations instead of making it possible to do.
17:04:20 <elliptic> Lasty: that sounds reasonable
17:04:58 <Cheibriados> 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-703-gfbd8a9b: Prevent trolls/demonspawn from being offered some sacrifices 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fbd8a9b20f7e
17:05:06 <Lasty> !learn del ru_to_do[3
17:05:06 <Sequell> Deleted ru to do[3/3]: conflicting racial mutations can cause a crash -- Troll w/ Slow Healing, for example.
17:05:43 <Lasty> !learn del ru_to_do[2
17:05:43 <Sequell> Deleted ru to do[2/2]: oh and when sacrificing a hand, some places said (currently unavailable) instead of (unavailable) which'd probably be more appropriate (i got this on my shield slot --wheals)
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17:07:43 <gammafunk> yeah the +3 stat but % 3 sounds a bit more exciting and even works better with 27 xls
17:08:08 <gammafunk> and it's also very demigod: you get BIG stats
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17:09:47 <Bloaxor> well part of the reason i like it at % 2 is due to the response time to changing your build being lower
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17:10:19 <gammafunk> well those early levels (1-12) come quite fast
17:10:44 <gammafunk> and that's 4 of the 9 decision points you have
17:12:32 <Bloaxor> p. stiff compared to 6 out of 14
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17:13:47 <Lasty> not really, since the stat game is the same
17:13:48 <gammafunk> it's actually allocating more of the additional stat points in that level range though
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17:13:58 <Lasty> *gain
17:14:59 <gammafunk> oh actually yeah it is totally the same
17:15:22 <Bloaxor> i'm talking about your mage suddenly picking up warrior duty
17:15:29 <Bloaxor> although i guess that's a bit of a niche
17:15:49 <gammafunk> well even then, having more decision points for exact same number of stats
17:16:11 <gammafunk> especially when we're talking two more decisions only; they're just not that impactful for it to matter
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17:17:19 <Bloaxor> i'm being really steady here, but even then i'd rather keep it at % 2
17:17:31 <Bloaxor> because XL gain is really, really slow
17:18:07 <Bloaxor> stubborn*
17:18:40 <gammafunk> !lm . dgwn br.enter=lair
17:18:41 <Sequell> 3. [2013-10-15 07:48:45] gammafunk the Conjurer (L12 DgWn) entered the Lair of Beasts on turn 17546. (D:12)
17:18:57 <gammafunk> As slow as it is, you're pretty likely to be entering lair at xl12
17:19:10 <Bloaxor> !lm * dg-- br.enter=lair x=avg(xl)
17:19:12 <Sequell> 4177 milestones for * (dg-- br.enter=lair): avg(xl)=10.35
17:19:21 <gammafunk> you want to adjust that
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17:19:23 <gammafunk> for versions
17:19:25 <gammafunk> since xp changes
17:19:29 <Bloaxor> o rite
17:19:33 <Bloaxor> !lm * dg-- recent br.enter=lair x=avg(xl)
17:19:34 <Sequell> 644 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.enter=lair): avg(xl)=10.24
17:19:54 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-702-gf4f471d (34)
17:19:59 <Bloaxor> now what was the branch end thingy..
17:20:06 <gammafunk> br.end
17:20:12 <Bloaxor> !lm * dg-- recent br.end=lair x=avg(xl)
17:20:14 <Sequell> 386 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.end=lair): avg(xl)=13.01
17:22:11 <gammafunk> !lm * dg-- recent br.enter=orc xl>12 x=avg(xl)
17:22:12 <Sequell> 290 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.enter=orc xl>12): avg(xl)=14.02
17:22:26 <gammafunk> !lm * dg-- recent br.enter=orc xl>=12 x=avg(xl)
17:22:28 <Sequell> 312 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.enter=orc xl>=12): avg(xl)=13.88
17:23:07 <Bloaxor> !lm * dg-- recent br.enter=vaults x=avg(xl)
17:23:08 <Sequell> 186 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.enter=vaults): avg(xl)=17.63
17:23:47 <Bloaxor> !lm * dg-- recent br.enter=vaults urune>=2 x=avg(xl)
17:23:48 <Sequell> 114 milestones for * (dg-- recent br.enter=vaults urune>=2): avg(xl)=18.09
17:24:37 <Bloaxor> right so after killing lair:8 and a couple of lair branches (and likely orc too) you get 5 xl
17:25:24 <Bloaxor> or 8 since entering lair
17:25:36 <Bloaxor> which is either two or four stat choices
17:26:12 <gammafunk> so 4 stat points vs 3 stat points? Or 8 stat points vs 6 stat points? You can't really argue that the more decision points is helpful for build planning
17:26:25 <gammafunk> given the stat numbers involved
17:26:37 <gammafunk> if we reforms stats (which is a 0.16 todo), then it could matter more
17:27:03 <Bloaxor> well it's less how many stats and more how fast you can adapt to potential change of plans
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17:28:06 <gammafunk> Any speed of adaptation you're getting from 1 or 2 more stat points now is very marginal and isn't outweighed by the benefit of consistency with current leveling and the less use prompting imo
17:28:44 <gammafunk> probably you should make crd post
17:28:52 <gammafunk> mention these two proposals
17:28:59 <gammafunk> dpeg can weigh in, and any others
17:29:08 <gammafunk> some devs who don't go to tavern much
17:29:26 <gammafunk> it's a simple enough patch that we can try whichever seems to have more traction
17:29:28 <Bloaxor> well i don't have anything on CRD so yeah
17:29:33 <gammafunk> ??crd
17:29:33 <Sequell> c-r-d[1/2]: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.crawl.devel
17:29:38 <gammafunk> ??crd[2
17:29:39 <Sequell> c-r-d[2/2]: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss
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17:29:56 <gammafunk> You send an email, it'll get approved once it's clear it's not spam
17:32:39 <gammafunk> johlstei_: "Alright, got my 16th point in dex, I'm ready for shoals." lol
17:33:24 <gammafunk> ??famous_last_words
17:33:24 <Sequell> famous last words[1/27]: according to the wiki
17:34:19 <gammafunk> 1learn add famous_last_words "Sif gave me monstrous menagerie. Shoals, here I come"
17:35:28 <Bloaxor> 1learn add famous_last_words "Well I have summon ice beast, that must be enough for swamp, right?"
17:35:41 <gammafunk> !lm . rune
17:35:42 <Sequell> 305. [2014-09-18 19:00:47] gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna) found a decaying rune of Zot on turn 8708. (Swamp:5)
17:35:55 <gammafunk> that was with :callings, first time I've ever done that, including a lerny kill
17:36:10 <gammafunk> well not first time with only :callings, but first time also killing lerny
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18:27:04 <Patashu> !tell lasty random ru idea - maybe sacrificing schools of magic should give less piety the more of them you've already sacrificed?
18:27:04 <Sequell> Patashu: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
18:27:04 <Sequell> Patashu: OK, I'll let lasty know.
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18:30:28 <Lasty> Patashu: Hmm, interesting idea.
18:30:28 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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18:30:52 <Patashu> basically it's to model the following:
18:30:57 <Patashu> if you could sacrifice all magic schools at once
18:31:04 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-704-g0cc52f6: clua: you.rot(), the amount of rot you currently have. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0cc52f6dda72
18:31:06 <Patashu> that shouldn't give the same amount of piety as sacrificing them one by one
18:31:29 <Lasty> one way of looking at it is that if you've already sacrificed 3 schools, you probably aren't casting at all.
18:31:47 <Patashu> another thing you could do is
18:31:51 <Patashu> make fire+ice sacrifice together
18:31:54 <Patashu> make earth+air sacrifice together
18:31:54 <Patashu> etc
18:32:06 <Lasty> Another way of looking at it is that after sacrificing three schools, sacrificing further means shutting yourself off from any meaningful chance of casting anything.
18:32:15 <Lasty> and thus the second is a bigger sacrifice
18:32:20 <elliptic> another option is just not offering magic school sacrificing at all after you've done it once
18:32:43 <Lasty> elliptic: perhaps so. Right now you can choose it at most 2x
18:32:49 <Lasty> butu maybe that's too much
18:33:22 <Lasty> *but
18:33:35 <Lasty> I don't want people to treat Ru as Trog
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18:34:33 <Patashu> trog = ru if you sacrifice all spell schools XD
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18:35:06 <johlstei_> sacrifice head: lose amulet slot and ability to cast spells
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18:35:13 <elliptic> 2x might be fine
18:35:23 <Lasty> johlstei_: sac neck, ofc
18:35:38 <johlstei_> and hat slot i guess
18:35:48 <Patashu> sacrifice tongue
18:36:06 <johlstei_> not even worth it if the flavor isn't "you literally cut off your head"
18:36:15 <Patashu> what would that be, no scrolls, no t, no spells
18:36:26 <Patashu> also shoutitis would stop working
18:36:30 <johlstei_> and horns
18:36:43 <johlstei_> didn't think about scrolls
18:36:49 <Lasty> and biting
18:36:52 <Lasty> and spellbooks
18:37:03 <Lasty> and seeing things/hearing things
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18:37:12 <Patashu> and being able to think
18:37:28 <johlstei_> sacrifice eye: you lose depth perception
18:37:35 <johlstei_> sometimes misjudge monster distance
18:37:44 <Patashu> sacrifice eye already exists
18:37:51 <johlstei_> oh really
18:37:52 <Lasty> johlstei_: that's a better version than I originally had for sac eye
18:37:52 <Patashu> it turns monsters into a monster shaped blur until they get within 4 tiles of you
18:37:58 <Patashu> then you identify them until they (leave los? Forever?)
18:37:58 <johlstei_> ahh cool
18:38:05 <Lasty> Patashu: that was never implemented
18:38:07 <Patashu> shhh
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22:50:25 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-705-g5fa01b3: Allow interlevel travel to use unknown stairs to enter a level containing exclusions (qw). 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5fa01b33c67a
22:50:40 <Grunt> qw-commit activated
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22:50:51 <Patashu> qwqwqw
22:50:52 <Sequell> qw-keys deactivated
22:55:52 -!- willster22 is now known as Zilis
22:57:30 <Grunt> qwqwqw
22:57:30 <Sequell> qw-keys activated
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23:04:02 -!- Kramin is now known as Floor_God
23:05:00 <gammafunk> gwgwgw
23:05:01 <Sequell> gw-keys deactivated
23:05:04 <gammafunk> wow
23:06:16 -!- Floor_God is now known as Kramin
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23:13:14 <Grunt> what
23:13:16 <Grunt> rip
23:13:38 <Grunt> !death gammafunk
23:13:39 <Sequell> Death has come for gammafunk...
23:13:53 <gammafunk> !lg .
23:13:54 <Sequell> 2235. gammafunk the Convoker (L14 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by LorrdErnie's ghost (great blast of fire) on Vaults:5 (vaults_vault) on 2014-09-20 03:01:44, with 58661 points after 12753 turns and 2:02:55.
23:14:04 <gammafunk> silly random firestorming ghost
23:14:11 <gammafunk> down MY CORRIDOR
23:14:15 <Grunt> not even a LogicNinja ghost
23:14:16 <Grunt> shame
23:14:17 <Grunt> !!!!
23:14:33 <gammafunk> had: parrow, ood, firestorm, bolt of fire
23:14:37 <gammafunk> amongs other things
23:14:45 <Grunt> so you might say that ghost was
23:14:47 <Grunt> !glasses
23:14:47 <Sequell> ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■)
23:14:47 <Grunt> ood
23:14:48 <Grunt> ???
23:14:55 <gammafunk> sigh
23:15:08 <Grunt> 1learn add Grunt <gammafunk> sigh
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23:21:40 <eeviac> uh, maybe I'm just tired and confused but I think my dude just skipped xl2 and went straight to xl3
23:23:24 <eeviac> if I gained two levels, shouldn't it say I hit level 2, then level 3?
23:23:29 <doy> yeah, it should
23:23:32 <doy> check your notes?
23:23:42 <eeviac> nothing
23:23:43 <doy> (and, is this online?)
23:23:46 <eeviac> that's why i'm confused
23:23:51 <eeviac> yes, eeviac@cao
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23:25:42 <Grunt> &dump eeviac
23:25:43 <Sequell> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/eeviac/eeviac.txt
23:25:54 <Grunt> 98 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 5/5
23:26:08 <eeviac> my notes didn't say that?
23:26:15 <eeviac> oh
23:26:16 <eeviac> nvm
23:26:21 <eeviac> I'm just tired and confused
23:26:25 <Grunt> :)
23:26:27 <eeviac> crawl is hard
23:26:30 <Grunt> !send eeviac !curing
23:26:30 <Sequell> Sending !curing to eeviac.
23:27:12 <doy> (:
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