00:09:39 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3458-g6d2551d (34)
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01:19:49 <minmay> !tv avigdore pan
01:19:49 <Sequell> 3. Avigdore, XL27 DsWz, T:92281 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
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02:21:21 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3458-g6d2551d (34)
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04:50:46 <TZer0> !messages
04:50:46 <Sequell> (1/1) Grunt said (14h 16m 37s ago): yes.
04:51:03 <TZer0> !tell Grunt Absolutely not.
04:51:03 <Sequell> TZer0: OK, I'll let grunt know.
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09:40:40 <Brannock_> FR: better term for evokables than "misc"
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11:14:05 <|amethyst> hm..
11:15:56 <|amethyst> oh, pillusions don't get actual weapons either, it's not just ghosts
11:16:53 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3459-gddce3d5: Don't let unarmed monsters try to cast Spectral Weapon. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ddce3d5e520e
11:17:10 <|amethyst> Hm, I guess I can improve that further
11:21:55 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3458-g6d2551d (34)
11:23:40 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3460-g88d68c2: Don't let monsters try SW on a bad weapon, either. 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 9+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88d68c2483c0
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11:48:20 <|amethyst> Interesting comment on our sourceforge page
11:48:36 <|amethyst> hmbgeng ***** I just looked at the file with Gnumeric and it was full of Garbage. Please do not use Wingdings, use Unicode Characters.
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11:52:48 <|amethyst> And then there is: lydtingbesttret ***** Awesome! and wonderfull API to integrate the compressor in my own projects!
11:53:27 <|amethyst> And a few that are obvious spam:  preseronin ***** Really good program, simple and useful. I'm satisfied.
11:53:36 <|amethyst> fodulrinart ***** always reliable. One of the first utilities I load on every new PC.
11:53:59 <|amethyst> writmifimo ***** Really powerful and practical software.
11:55:23 <|amethyst> ahh... that first comment was apparently copied from a comment here: https://detarame.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/dungeon-crawl-stone-soup-0-10-reference-excel-sheet/
11:55:40 <|amethyst> which makes much more sense
11:56:57 <evilmike> why would spammers post weird positive comments like that?
11:57:30 <|amethyst> my guess would be to get their accounts' feedback highly rated so they can increase the rating of their own software
11:58:21 <|amethyst> Since people are, I suspect, more likely to mark a positive comment as "helpful"
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12:00:01 <minmay> Oh Lamia is really a nice game for the game lovers. I played this game many a times, but still unsatisfied by it's fire and ice beauty.
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12:01:12 <|amethyst> heh
12:01:33 <minmay> that's my favourite tavern spam post
12:02:01 <|amethyst> ??lamia
12:02:01 <Sequell> lamia[1/2]: [Crawl development] will clip an Angel's Wings, / Conquer all mysteries by rule and line, / Empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine-- / Unweave a rainbow as it erewhile made / The tender-person'd Lamia melt into a shade.
12:02:05 <|amethyst> ??lamia[2]
12:02:05 <Sequell> lamia[2/2]: <DracoOmega> !lg * cv=0.12 place=~Snake s=ikiller <Sequell> 222 games for * (cv=0.12 place=~Snake): 64x Lamia, 48x a naga warrior, 37x a greater naga, 10x an anaco....
12:02:08 <|amethyst> aww
12:03:01 <minmay> yeah, I had it added there but someone deleted it
12:03:15 <minmay> which meant that tracking it down I had to run into this on the way :( https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=105832#p105832
12:03:42 <greensnark> Wow, so Mnoleg is the new hotness? :)
12:04:00 <PleasingFungus> finally
12:04:17 <PleasingFungus> !tell wheals "     Hey PleasingFungus, it looks like there's an information leak with wand of random effects on current trunk. If it's about to queue up a hex, it'll display the chance to succeed..."
12:04:17 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:04:25 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3461-gf41dd15: Display /disint's success chance (Davzz) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f41dd15692b3
12:04:45 <PleasingFungus> !tell wheals "You can repeatedly cancel the prompt to manipulate the wand into (not) using a hex. edit: different hexes have different success chances listed, so someone patient enough could probably figure out which hex they're about to cast with /RE."
12:04:45 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:04:56 <minmay> http://crawl.develz.org/info/tile.php?q=mnoleg is funny
12:08:01 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: wikipedia claims the recent indian site block has already been reversed, but I can't find a source for that
12:09:18 <Cheibriados> Mnoleg (09&) | Spd: 13 | HD: 17 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/25 | Dam: 4012(klown), 3509(mutation), 3012(vuln), 2306(blink self) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 10820 | Sp: sum.eyeballs [06!sil], malign gateway [06!sil], sum.horrible things [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high.

12:09:18 <evilmike> %??mnoleg
12:09:58 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  weebly, vimeo, dailymotion, and github have "undertaken not to allow pasting of such propaganda information" and are being unblocked:  http://qz.com/319900/how-the-mumbai-police-managed-to-block-vimeo-and-github-in-india/
12:10:12 <Cheibriados> Killer Klown (10p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 131-170 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(160) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 4747 | Sp: blink [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: high.

12:10:12 <evilmike> %??killer klown
12:10:27 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: ah, possibly that's what the wiki editor was referencing
12:10:29 <PleasingFungus> what a mess
12:11:44 <|amethyst> if sourceforge caves, though, I think we should host Crawl elsewhere
12:11:59 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: re b03f90ca4266, I added that for two reasons: (1) it was a Frequently Asked Question, (2) iirc we don't actually mention that mechanic anywhere else (the hydra healing from lost heads things). the second one should probably be addressed in hydra's description, but the first one seems like a reasonable concern
12:12:11 <PleasingFungus> idk
12:12:14 <|amethyst> since sourceforge was being blocked because of one project (the order only listed that one project)
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12:12:22 <|amethyst> and that project was a pastebin server
12:12:37 <|amethyst> not a running pastebin server
12:12:46 <|amethyst> I mean software that allows you to run a pastebin server
12:13:16 <MarvinPA> i would have hoped the obvious answer to "can i let enemies hit me repeatedly to gain hp" is "um no"
12:13:37 <PleasingFungus> well, crawl is dumb
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12:14:04 <Cheibriados> Nurse (04R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 88 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Dam: 17 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, lev | Res: 06magic(40), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 1263 | Sp: b.fire (3d20) [06!sil], sticky flame range (3d5) [06!sil], fireball (3d20) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) burst [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Large | Int: high.

12:14:04 <|amethyst> %?? azrael name:Nurse
12:14:11 <|amethyst> oh, wait, flaming
12:14:22 <Cheibriados> Anti-nurse (04R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 88 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Dam: 17 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, lev | Res: 06magic(40), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 1263 | Sp: b.fire (3d20) [06!sil], sticky flame range (3d5) [06!sil], fireball (3d20) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) burst [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Large | Int: high.

12:14:22 <|amethyst> %?? azrael name:Anti-nurse
12:15:00 <MarvinPA> i mainly objected to it because "flaw in the spell to justify self-evident gameplay mechanics" is really awkward to me, i dislike it in iood's desc too
12:15:47 <PleasingFungus> it's not self-evident that monster spells wouldn't have the restriction
12:15:48 <PleasingFungus> for iood
12:16:05 <MarvinPA> sure, that's not an issue here though
12:16:15 <Sizzell> ufoexpert (L5 GrMo) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:16:27 <|amethyst> !crashlog ufoexpert
12:16:28 <Sequell> 1. ufoexpert, XL5 GrMo, T:3193 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ufoexpert/crash-ufoexpert-20150101-181606.txt
12:16:30 <MarvinPA> also the iood desc doesn't even get that across really anyway, i think
12:16:49 <|amethyst> auto_assign_item_slot => swap_inv_slots
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12:17:08 <MarvinPA> it just says something vague about "certain individuals"
12:17:17 <Sizzell> ufoexpert (L5 GrMo) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:17:23 <|amethyst> !tell wheals crash in auto_assign_item_slot: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ufoexpert/crash-ufoexpert-20150101-181606.txt
12:17:23 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:17:24 <MarvinPA> also it's self-evident when it happens and you die
12:17:26 <MarvinPA> so that seems fine
12:17:39 <MarvinPA> learning is fun
12:18:26 <PleasingFungus> it's not really very transparent at all even then - very easy to miss in a lot of cases (cases like the orbit of destruction less so, of course :p)
12:18:42 <PleasingFungus> the entire point of descriptions is to let people learn without dying :)
12:18:44 <PleasingFungus> but I can tweak the wording
12:18:48 <|amethyst> is it obvious that yours disappears when it leaves LOS?
12:18:54 <|amethyst> since you can't see it happening
12:19:01 <|amethyst> you might just think that the enemy dodged
12:21:54 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  who was the randeff quote from?
12:22:05 <PleasingFungus> Brannock
12:23:14 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3462-g9823987: Don't leak hexiness of /RE effects (Brannock) 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9823987909ed
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12:23:31 <PleasingFungus> ah, nice!
12:23:38 <PleasingFungus> !tell wheals |amethyst fixed it :)
12:23:40 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:24:02 <|amethyst> !tell wheals (but I didn't fix the auto_assign_item_slot crash, have at it)
12:24:02 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:24:34 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: I found the original statue form/gargoyle interaction stuff; the penalty was originally added in compensation for letting gargoyle's innate AC work in statue form, if I'm reading it correctly
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12:24:38 <|amethyst> !tell wheals btw, you have messages
12:24:38 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know.
12:24:43 <PleasingFungus> !tell |amethyst hi...
12:24:43 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
12:25:10 <MarvinPA> ah, i did try to track it down but failed
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12:25:21 <wheals> !tell |amethyst you've got mail!
12:25:21 <Sequell> wheals: You have 6 messages. Use !messages to read them.
12:25:21 <Sequell> wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
12:25:23 <MarvinPA> but yeah that seems like a feasible explanation
12:25:24 <wheals> !messages
12:25:25 <Sequell> (1/6) PleasingFungus said (21m 8s ago): "     Hey PleasingFungus, it looks like there's an information leak with wand of random effects on current trunk. If it's about to queue up a hex, it'll display the chance to succeed..."
12:25:33 <wheals> excellent
12:25:34 <wheals> !messages
12:25:35 <Sequell> (1/5) PleasingFungus said (20m 49s ago): "You can repeatedly cancel the prompt to manipulate the wand into (not) using a hex. edit: different hexes have different success chances listed, so someone patient enough could probably figure out which hex they're about to cast with /RE."
12:25:40 <wheals> !messages
12:25:40 <Sequell> (1/4) |amethyst said (8m 17s ago): crash in auto_assign_item_slot: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ufoexpert/crash-ufoexpert-20150101-181606.txt
12:25:42 <wheals> !messages
12:25:42 <Sequell> (1/3) PleasingFungus said (2m 2s ago): |amethyst fixed it :)
12:25:43 <wheals> !messages
12:25:43 <Sequell> (1/2) |amethyst said (1m 41s ago): (but I didn't fix the auto_assign_item_slot crash, have at it)
12:25:45 <wheals> !messages
12:25:45 <Sequell> (1/1) |amethyst said (1m 7s ago): btw, you have messages
12:25:50 <wheals> good stort
12:25:51 <wheals> *story
12:26:19 <PleasingFungus> I'm moved
12:27:09 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: the relevant commit suggested that he (DO) wanted to disable gargoyle statue form altogether, since they're already a statue
12:27:18 <PleasingFungus> I don't feel strongly about this
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12:28:27 <|amethyst> eh, we don't disable tree form for vine stalkers
12:28:27 <Sequell> |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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12:28:59 <wheals> &rc ufoexpert
12:29:00 <Sequell> http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/ufoexpert.rc
12:29:00 <PleasingFungus> vines aren't trees!!!!
12:29:14 <PleasingFungus> unless there's some kind of 'vine tree' I'm unaware of
12:29:17 <PleasingFungus> biology is weird.
12:29:17 <wheals> ++ for not allowing statue form gr
12:29:23 <wheals> hm
12:29:34 <|amethyst> gargoyles aren't half-speed and mostly slotless, either
12:29:36 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check
12:29:37 <Sequell> 344. [2015-01-01 18:17:09] ufoexpert the Ruffian (L5 GrMo of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:29:39 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check -
12:29:40 <Sequell> No keyword '-'
12:29:41 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check -2
12:29:41 <Sequell> 343/344. [2015-01-01 18:16:06] ufoexpert the Cudgeler (L5 GrMo of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:29:43 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check -3
12:29:43 <Sequell> 342/344. [2014-12-31 16:06:23] flatmate the Sneak (L4 SpAM of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3)
12:29:45 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check -4
12:29:45 <Sequell> 341/344. [2014-12-31 14:06:22] flatmate the Sneak (L4 SpAM of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3)
12:29:48 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~range_check -5
12:29:49 <Sequell> 340/344. [2014-12-27 01:06:12] tigertrap the Firebug (L9 CeFE of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:7)
12:29:55 <wheals> &rc flatmate
12:29:57 <Sequell> http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/flatmate.rc
12:30:07 <wheals> all the same rc
12:30:12 <PleasingFungus> I don't think there's a mechanical justification for barring statue form gr, ya
12:30:16 <PleasingFungus> hence my ambivalence
12:30:22 <wheals> wow that's a lot of item_slots
12:30:36 <PleasingFungus> not a very good spell for them even with the huge +4 AC boost :)
12:31:12 <|amethyst> !rachlog ufoexpert
12:31:15 <|amethyst> err
12:31:21 <|amethyst> epic spelling bug
12:31:24 <|amethyst> !crashlog ufoexpert
12:31:24 <Sequell> 2. ufoexpert, XL5 GrMo, T:3082 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ufoexpert/crash-ufoexpert-20150101-181709.txt
12:31:28 <|amethyst> !crashlog flatmate
12:31:29 <Sequell> 2. flatmate, XL4 SpAM, T:3585 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/flatmate/crash-flatmate-20141231-160623.txt
12:31:30 <|amethyst> !crashlog tigertrap
12:31:30 <Sequell> 6. tigertrap, XL9 CeFE, T:8527 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tigertrap/crash-tigertrap-20141227-010612.txt
12:31:35 <wheals> ufoexpert and flatmate both have rcs that are nothing but include += tigertrap.rc
12:32:04 <|amethyst> oh, crashlogs don't include inventory
12:32:24 <wheals> ah, just equipment
12:32:41 <|amethyst> oh, wonder if this is my fault
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12:33:26 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3463-g048a9e8: Fix a scribal error (IOOD description) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=048a9e8318d4
12:33:44 <|amethyst> hm, no, looks like it would have happened before
12:33:51 <wheals> base_type = OBJ_POTIONS, sub_type = 2 in ufo's
12:34:04 <|amethyst> ah
12:34:25 <wheals> oh hm, it's getting the 27000 from from_slot
12:34:25 <wheals> weird
12:34:29 <|amethyst> I bet all of those worshipped ash
12:34:32 <|amethyst> I see the problem
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12:34:52 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~range_check x=god
12:34:52 <Sequell> 344. [2015-01-01 18:17:09] [god=Ashenzari] ufoexpert the Ruffian (L5 GrMo of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:34:53 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~range_check x=god -2
12:34:53 <Sequell> 343/344. [2015-01-01 18:16:06] [god=Ashenzari] ufoexpert the Cudgeler (L5 GrMo of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:3)
12:34:54 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~range_check x=god -3
12:34:55 <Sequell> 342/344. [2014-12-31 16:06:23] [god=Ashenzari] flatmate the Sneak (L4 SpAM of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3)
12:34:55 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~range_check x=god -4
12:34:55 <Sequell> 341/344. [2014-12-31 14:06:22] [god=Ashenzari] flatmate the Sneak (L4 SpAM of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3)
12:34:55 <|amethyst> !lm * crash noun~~range_check x=god -5
12:34:56 <Sequell> 340/344. [2014-12-27 01:06:12] [god=Ashenzari] tigertrap the Firebug (L9 CeFE of Ashenzari) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 52) (D:7)
12:35:41 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~file
12:35:44 <Sequell> 154. [2014-03-07 12:59:10] ScarletJ the Sneak (L1 VpAs) ERROR in 'format.cc' at line 200: Stack underflow in string "<lightred>Lua error: /dgldir/rcfiles/crawl-git/ScarletJ.rc:92: unfinished string near '" monsters can smite you.</lightmagenta>'</lightred>" (D:1)
12:35:56 <wheals> !lm * crash noun~~ASSERT
12:35:57 <Sequell> 5041. [2014-12-29 15:07:25] jtj27 the Bringer of Life (L18 GrHe of Elyvilon) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1922 failed on turn 62417. (D:15)
12:36:05 <wheals> oh
12:36:13 <wheals> i guess those would all be in fixedvector.h
12:36:19 <wheals> so saying the file wouldn't help
12:36:39 <|amethyst> go by 27000 / 52
12:36:49 <|amethyst> if you're looking for more occurrences of that bug
12:36:57 <|amethyst> though that will catch a lot of other bugs about inventory too
12:37:23 <|amethyst> I think I have a fix, testing
12:37:36 <wheals> i wonder whether weapon_can_be_spectral could be used in dancing weapon code
12:37:40 <wheals> i mean, presumably
12:37:52 <|amethyst> yeah, I thought about that but didn't bother checking
12:37:57 <|amethyst> but I suspect the rules are the same
12:42:10 <Brannock_> casting confuse on a gargoyle displays 69% chance to succeed, but gargoyle is unaffected
12:42:33 <PleasingFungus> this is true of quite a lot of cases
12:42:42 <PleasingFungus> someone was talking about it on... tavern, I think
12:42:55 <evilmike> is it caused by magic immune?
12:42:56 <PleasingFungus> e.g. hibernation on rc creatures
12:43:03 <|amethyst> not magic immune
12:43:04 <PleasingFungus> evilmike: monster gargoyles are nonliving
12:43:09 <|amethyst> but immune for reasons other than MR
12:43:13 <PleasingFungus> ya
12:43:31 <evilmike> well, all nonliving are magic immune still, right?
12:43:41 <wheals> oh, speaking of which
12:43:42 <|amethyst> evilmike:  no
12:43:46 <wheals> multi holiness would be a great time to remove demon/holy poly
12:43:47 <wheals> :)
12:43:59 <PleasingFungus> what
12:44:01 <PleasingFungus> fucked up
12:44:06 <Cheibriados> gargoyle (159) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-33 | AC/EV: 18/6 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(40), 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 415 | Sp: stone arrow (3d12) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

12:44:06 <|amethyst> %??gargoyle
12:44:15 <PleasingFungus> why would you do that
12:44:23 <wheals> why does it exist
12:44:29 <wheals> is the correct question
12:44:35 <|amethyst> Why does polymorph exist at all?
12:44:36 <PleasingFungus> it's fun, makes nemelex more useful in extended, etc
12:44:53 <PleasingFungus> I still want to expand it. make pan lords get randomized by poly
12:45:06 <wheals> people have used polymorph on non-demons
12:45:35 <PleasingFungus> !degenerate wheals
12:45:37 <evilmike> i've never had a problem with demon polymorph as a concept
12:46:03 <|amethyst> !lg * killer~~grinder_the
12:46:05 <Sequell> 134. lindsey the Skirmisher (L6 DsCK of Xom), blasted by Grinder the smoke demon (ball of steam) on D:4 on 2014-12-16 14:28:45, with 312 points after 3544 turns and 0:07:46.
12:46:23 <evilmike> theres a bunch of people who are (quite vocally) against it, but i think its just because there aren't enough demons
12:46:26 <evilmike> or they turn into weird things
12:46:42 <wheals> !lg * recent killer~~grinder_the s=killer
12:46:45 <Sequell> 47 games for * (recent killer~~grinder_the): 11x Grinder the hellion, 4x Grinder the hell beast, 4x Grinder the iron imp, 3x Grinder the tormentor, 3x Grinder the hell hound, 3x Grinder the white imp, 2x Grinder the sixfirhy, 2x Grinder the demonic crawler, 2x Grinder the hellwing, 2x Grinder the efreet, Grinder the ynoxinul, Grinder the smoke demon, Grinder the blue devil, Grinder the iron devil,...
12:47:05 <PleasingFungus> well, that's a general poly problem
12:47:12 <evilmike> "problem"
12:47:13 <PleasingFungus> since hd is a thing, and yet, not a thing
12:47:32 <PleasingFungus> here: a slug. here: a wyvern. which of these creatures will be more dangerous when polymorphed?
12:47:50 <|amethyst> even going by XP wouldn't help much there
12:47:53 <Cheibriados> Grinder (025) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 1105(pain) | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 281 | Sp: pain (d10) [06!sil], paralyse [06!sil], blink [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal.

12:47:53 <|amethyst> %??grinder
12:47:54 <wheals> there are maybe a few of those that are reasonable (granted that list is biased towards the ones that kill people)
12:47:55 <Cheibriados> hellion (042) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 383 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: high.

12:47:55 <|amethyst> %??hellion
12:48:14 <evilmike> i think hd should just be on the monster info screen
12:48:24 <|amethyst> so wouldn't polymorphing a hellion be a good strategy?
12:48:30 <evilmike> i mean if MR, spell lists, etc are being exposed now, HD is pretty good to show too
12:48:36 <evilmike> considering it's the catchall stat for monsters
12:48:41 <PleasingFungus> elliptic's position on it is that we should phase out all the mechanics that touch HD directly
12:48:46 <wheals> |amethyst: it kind of already looks like it is
12:48:48 <PleasingFungus> I suggested this at the time I added ac and ev displays
12:48:58 <PleasingFungus> but he's strongly opposed iirc
12:48:59 <Cheibriados> blue devil (024) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 14/10 | Dam: 21 | 05demonic, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(40), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 303 | Sz: Medium | Int: high.

12:48:59 <wheals> %??blue devil
12:49:02 <wheals> same HD
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12:50:10 <theTower> can't wait for the script that averages out all the current xp to spellset / health range modifiers per-monster and then making polymorph apply to xp range
12:50:13 <PleasingFungus> actually I might be misrepresenting him slightly, it's been a few months
12:50:16 <evilmike> i wouldnt mind phasing out HD and replacing it with proper stats, so if theres an idea on how to do that, maybe its worth trying
12:50:22 <evilmike> it sounds reall difficult though
12:50:24 <theTower> then death yaks can become fire giants
12:50:26 <evilmike> because so many things are tied to HD
12:50:34 <PleasingFungus> ya
12:50:39 <PleasingFungus> there's a big list on tavern somewhere
12:50:48 <Cheibriados> death yak (08Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | Res: 06magic(100) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 872 | Sz: Big | Int: animal.

12:50:48 <PleasingFungus> %??death yak
12:50:49 <PleasingFungus> %%?fire giant
12:50:53 <wheals> ??hd[develz
12:50:54 <Sequell> hd[3/5]: More or less comprehensive list of effects: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=181800#p181800
12:50:55 <Cheibriados> fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 76-116 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire++, 12drown | XP: 1812 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal.

12:50:55 <PleasingFungus> %??fire giant
12:50:59 <PleasingFungus> they already can
12:51:05 <theTower> whoops, was thinking of two death yaks
12:51:07 <PleasingFungus> haha
12:51:14 <wheals> duct-taped together?
12:51:16 <theTower> xp ranges are not very sane currently anyway >_>
12:51:23 <PleasingFungus> clearly needs to be some effect that melds multiple monsters together
12:51:26 <theTower> (also why am I up two hours earlier than usual)
12:51:27 <PleasingFungus> as long as it's not
12:51:28 <PleasingFungus> chimeras
12:51:30 <wheals> roll of duct tape
12:51:34 <PleasingFungus> theTower: I'm up two hours later than usual, so it balances out
12:51:42 <|amethyst> "crack of noon"
12:51:51 <|amethyst> if you're in colorado anyway
12:52:00 <PleasingFungus> but who lives there???
12:52:03 <PleasingFungus> happy 2015 btw
12:52:18 <wheals> who will 2015 be the year of
12:52:33 <theTower> ...who was 2014 the year of
12:52:34 <PleasingFungus> still luigi
12:52:37 <PleasingFungus> luigi is eternal
12:52:48 <|amethyst> theTower:  gitstats says PleasingFungus
12:52:56 <wheals> breaking grunt's streak?
12:53:12 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/crawl-stats/authors.html#author_of_year
12:53:41 <theTower> okay, that stat's worthless now that I realize what it implies >_>
12:53:56 <wheals> who had the most millimarvins this year!
12:54:16 <|amethyst> probably you
12:54:28 <Cheibriados> deep elf knight (10e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 37-60 | AC/EV: 0/15 | Dam: 14 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | XP: 779 | Sp: magic dart (3d5), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d8), invisibility, magic dart (3d5), confuse / throw frost (3d8), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d8), magic dart (3d5), invisibility [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: high.

12:54:28 <theTower> %??deep elf knight
12:54:29 <PleasingFungus> 2014 was the least single-dev-dominated year since 2010, apparently
12:54:33 <PleasingFungus> also the most commits since 2010
12:54:34 <evilmike> btw speaking of making HD better, the first thing I'd decouple from it is monster to-hit
12:54:34 <theTower> ...damnit, bah
12:54:35 <|amethyst> we will have to rename them to milliwhealses
12:54:45 <wheals> i assume he still is beating me
12:54:47 <|amethyst> wheals:  nope
12:54:51 <wheals> :o
12:54:55 <|amethyst> wheals:  -7736 to -7537
12:55:00 <PleasingFungus> !
12:55:08 <wheals> %git --author=marvinpa
12:55:09 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit --author=marvinpa (git returned 129)
12:55:12 <theTower> hmm
12:55:13 <wheals> %git --author=chris
12:55:13 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 6d2551d67a2b: Remove AC reduction for statue form Gargoyles 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6d2551d67a2b
12:55:19 <PleasingFungus> heh
12:55:21 <wheals> he's trying to catch up...
12:55:40 <doy> hmmm, i fell out of the top ten in december
12:55:42 <doy> need to get back on that
12:55:57 <wheals> PleasingFungus: i guess that makes sense we added a ton of members this year
12:56:17 <wheals> theTower, gammafunk, spicerack, me, reaverb, you, roctavian
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12:56:31 <wheals> Lasty, right
12:56:39 <PleasingFungus> i thought you and gammafunk started last year
12:56:41 <wheals> knew i'd forgotten someone
12:56:53 <|amethyst> Lasty
12:56:56 <wheals> well, we haven't added anyone this year yet :P
12:57:03 <wheals> |amethyst: ?
12:57:13 <|amethyst> was added in 2014
12:57:26 <wheals> <wheals> Lasty, right <wheals>knew i'd forgotten someone
12:57:29 <|amethyst> oh
12:57:35 <|amethyst> I missed that line, doh :)
12:57:41 <wheals> i guess "Lasty, right" is a funny order
12:57:53 <|amethyst> who's right?
12:57:54 <PleasingFungus> right, lasty. left, lasty. on every side - lasty!
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12:58:02 <PleasingFungus> gonna pingstorm him
12:58:04 <wheals> no, Lasty is right, Lasty_ is left
12:58:15 <geekosaur> the lasty one in every direction
12:58:20 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  you do the cheipokey and you turn yourself about?
12:58:29 <wheals> we also had someone rejoin for a rather short period >_>
12:58:45 <PleasingFungus> 2014 was also the closest year to LOC-neutral on record
12:58:58 <wheals> i assume all others were positive?
12:59:04 <PleasingFungus> 2009 was hugely negative
12:59:07 <PleasingFungus> every other year was positive, ya
12:59:11 <wheals> that was contribs
12:59:20 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  the only reasdon it's the least single-dev-dominated year since 2010 is because you joined in May :)
12:59:24 <|amethyst> s/sdo/so/
12:59:30 <PleasingFungus> pfft
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13:01:20 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3464-gbd92a9a: Don't crash on item_slot when Ash IDs a floor item. 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd92a9a2b7e5
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13:20:29 <wheals> heh
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13:21:43 <Cheibriados> 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-3465-g53c7d0b: oriflamme -> portcullis 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53c7d0bcb1ab
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13:23:36 <PleasingFungus> oh
13:23:38 <PleasingFungus> *uh
13:23:47 <PleasingFungus> doy: flags can creak, snap, etc (in the wind)
13:24:00 <PleasingFungus> and they can be lowered down their pole, toward the ground
13:24:07 <|amethyst> yeah, but that's not really how the messages worked
13:24:14 <|amethyst> you can't usually hear a flag being lowered
13:24:35 <PleasingFungus> it's an okay change, though I'll miss 'oriflamme'
13:24:44 <PleasingFungus> but the commit message is wrong!!!
13:24:57 <|amethyst> make it into a unrand polearm for orcs
13:25:00 <doy> i'm sure we can work in oriflamme somewhere else
13:25:02 <doy> (:
13:25:57 <evilmike> i'm working on a game where your character is called ori and you shoot flames at things
13:26:44 <PleasingFungus> It is I, Ori the Flamme.
13:30:22 <doy> so how do poeple feel about yellow wasp -> wasp, red wasp -> hornet?
13:30:24 <|amethyst> evilmike:  obviously you need Christian theologians at character-creation time
13:30:29 <|amethyst> evilmike:  specifically, Origen
13:30:37 <PleasingFungus> doy: I'm still in favor, just don't have a working sed
13:30:43 <doy> okay
13:30:45 <doy> i'll do that then
13:30:47 <PleasingFungus> :)
13:31:03 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: Saint Roka of Hippo
13:31:41 <|amethyst> Thomas Acquirement
13:32:22 <evilmike> yellow wasp could be "yellowjacket" too
13:32:25 <|amethyst> that one might need to be nerfed, wikipedia says he was OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas
13:32:52 <|amethyst> evilmike:  that came up before but I think was deemed too much of an Americanism
13:33:04 <PleasingFungus> marvin luther
13:33:27 <evilmike> also imo red wasps should be tarantula hawks
13:33:28 <simmarine> wow rip oriflamme
13:33:58 <PleasingFungus> I really wonder how many players knew what an oriflamme was
13:34:00 <evilmike> because they are actual red wasps irl, and they are badass enough to eat giant spiders irl
13:34:06 <evilmike> which makes them a good video game monster
13:34:43 <|amethyst> the Holy Roman Empire of insects
13:34:58 <doy> i knew what an oriflamme was because http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4078&type=card
13:35:25 <PleasingFungus> but that doesn't depict an oriflamme!!!
13:35:32 <doy> yeah, well
13:35:42 <doy> i looked it up because of that, anyway
13:35:44 <doy> (:
13:35:46 <PleasingFungus> admittedly same
13:35:50 <|amethyst> it's *the* oriflamme anyway :)
13:36:23 <PleasingFungus> imo http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=191314&type=card
13:36:27 <PleasingFungus> I had this deck once
13:36:36 <doy> oh man, me too
13:36:39 <doy> sliver deck
13:36:55 <PleasingFungus> goblins
13:37:01 <doy> back in stronghold i think
13:37:07 <|amethyst> a bit later, but I had a Reaper King EDH deck for a while
13:37:10 <PleasingFungus> running goblin grenade and lightning bolt, among other things
13:37:12 <PleasingFungus> that was a silly deck
13:37:15 <doy> nice
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13:42:01 <evilmike> man, i haven't played mtg in forever. i was talking to someone about it the other day, and was surprised when i found out they stopped printing counterspell
13:42:20 <evilmike> which apparently happened like 10 years ago
13:42:20 <PleasingFungus> haha
13:42:20 <|amethyst> heh
13:42:21 <PleasingFungus> !lg * kmap=st_orc_pillars s=killer
13:42:22 <Sequell> 470 games for * (kmap=st_orc_pillars): 187x an orc priest, 116x an orc knight, 82x an orc warrior, 78x an orc high priest, 6x an orc, a deep troll
13:42:32 <PleasingFungus> !lg * orc:4 s=killer
13:42:33 <Sequell> 14878 games for * (orc:4): 2091x an orc warrior, 1572x an orc priest, 1280x an orc knight, 679x Saint Roka, 665x an orc high priest, 630x an orc warlord, 523x a sun demon, 487x a sixfirhy, 477x an orc sorcerer, 415x an ogre mage, 365x an ogre, 364x an ettin, 340x a two-headed ogre, 306x, 304x a smoke demon, 297x a stone giant, 276x a troll, 214x an orc, 190x an ice devil, 179x an orc wizard, 167x ...
13:43:23 <|amethyst> evilmike:  I guess they also mentioned the new card frames :)
13:45:43 <evilmike> I remember when they changed it from the ugly original one, at least
13:45:57 <theTower> !seen ontoclasm
13:45:57 <Sequell> I last saw ontoclasm at Thu Jan  1 06:50:36 2015 UTC (12h 55m 21s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving.'.
13:46:32 <theTower> patiently waiting for those card tiles based on all those descriptions I wrangled out of others / brainspace
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13:46:46 <evilmike> it's cool how they are still stuck with the same old card back, with the pointless "DECKMASTER" branding
13:47:11 <|amethyst> I remember when Jyhad was renamed and did change the card back
13:47:31 <PleasingFungus> theTower: I am an expert tilesmith. I will make the tiles.
13:48:00 <|amethyst> and the tournament rules were something like "either 100%, 0%, or between 40 and 60% of your deck must use a given back"
13:48:08 <|amethyst> phrased differently, probably
13:48:40 <wheals> PleasingFungus: tell us, was goblin grenade the inspiration for robin.
13:48:46 <PleasingFungus> no
13:49:09 <|amethyst> evilmike:  I think now there are some cards (two-sided) that require opaque sleeves or a proxy to use in a tournament
13:49:10 <PleasingFungus> I hadn't thought about it in years, until oriflamme/coat of arms chat
13:49:18 <PleasingFungus> immo + toss would be a cute/annoying combo, tho
13:49:20 <PleasingFungus> not for that early
13:49:32 <|amethyst> wheals:  there was a giant that was closer
13:49:49 <wheals> i remeber its flavour text had "chuck"
13:50:05 <Cheibriados> Unknown spell name: 'goblin toss' in 'goblin_toss.50.natural'

13:50:05 <wheals> %??chuck spells:goblin_toss.50.natural
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13:52:01 <theTower> pleasingfungus: yes, your art will do well for depicting "something the brain refuses to register"
13:52:14 <|amethyst> wheals:  bloodshot cyclops http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=45387  (but there was airdrop condor before that)
13:52:59 <|amethyst> oh, I guess it wasn't before that, it was after
13:56:45 <PleasingFungus> theTower: http://i.imgur.com/ogiC4Pz.png imo choose one <_<
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14:31:00 <TZer0> I'm working on developing my own application using curses
14:31:21 <TZer0> does anyone know how I can get colour redinition support under Linux?
14:31:26 <TZer0> *redefinition
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14:31:36 <TZer0> can_change_color always returns false.
14:32:41 <TZer0> environment: Linux Mint + gnome terminal + libncurses5-dev
14:33:24 <TZer0> oh, nevermind.
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14:43:23 <Cheibriados> Amulet of the gourmand gives hunger on removal 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9374 by argonaut
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17:08:10 <gammafunk> |amethyst: I've moved the score thing (yes I'm still working on this) into the client, like edlothiol did for lobby; one question here is to what extent we support urls, since the processing of this is handled by the client
17:08:11 <PleasingFungus> http://sprunge.us/bWjI WIP, for anyone who likes looking at vaults
17:08:41 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: ...we both broke the silence at the same time, after no one else had said anything in three hours
17:08:42 <gammafunk> |amethyst: I could support something like "/scores/sprint/meatsprint" as the url, for instance, but the last path component would have to be the internal crawl map name
17:08:54 <PleasingFungus> I'm spooked
17:09:07 <gammafunk> PleasingFungus: they know of my plans to assassinate your next Gh
17:09:14 <PleasingFungus> but
17:09:16 <PleasingFungus> !lg . gh
17:09:16 <Sequell> 38. PleasingFungus the Timeless (L27 GhWz of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-12-26 03:24:12, with 1890703 points after 54515 turns and 6:26:02.
17:09:21 <PleasingFungus> next gh???
17:09:34 <gammafunk> yes, there *must* not be another PleasingFungus gh with the ORB
17:09:42 <PleasingFungus> no worries on that account
17:09:43 <gammafunk> the Dark Circle has commanded this
17:09:43 <PleasingFungus> imo
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17:10:04 <gammafunk> day after christmas...
17:10:12 <gammafunk> don't eve know what kind of holiday message that is
17:10:49 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-3465-g53c7d0b (34)
17:11:17 <Cheibriados> demonspawn (076) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 23-44 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 196 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

17:11:17 <gammafunk> %??demonspawn
17:11:27 <Cheibriados> orc knight (10o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 53-84 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 621 | Sp: battlecry [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

17:11:27 <gammafunk> %??orc_knight
17:11:40 <Cheibriados> gelid demonspawn (026) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 43-67 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold++ | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 709 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

17:11:40 <gammafunk> %??gelid_demonspawn
17:11:44 <gammafunk> ok there we go
17:12:04 <gammafunk> hrm, tbh that's less than even an orc knight
17:12:17 <Cheibriados> monstrous demonspawn (156) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 92-106 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 20, 15, 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 956 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

17:12:17 <gammafunk> %??monstrous_demonspawn
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17:14:13 <gammafunk> it's cool theme and I like the basic concept,but I think an ordinary non-monstrous demonspawn is not really going to do much gameplay wise
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17:14:38 <gammafunk> all of the classed ones are probably too difficult I guess
17:14:43 <gammafunk> maybe you could use one though
17:15:02 <Cheibriados> putrid demonspawn (036) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-61 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 667 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

17:15:02 <wheals> %??putrid demonspawn
17:15:24 <PleasingFungus> idk, monsters roughly on par with orc knights seem relevant in orc
17:15:25 <PleasingFungus> maybe I'm wrong
17:15:38 <gammafunk> not as "hey this is the boss"
17:15:51 <PleasingFungus> ya
17:15:52 <PleasingFungus> sure
17:16:04 <gammafunk> since you only place one
17:16:04 <PleasingFungus> I was considering a monstrous demonspawn as the boss but hangedman suggested that the focus should be on the orcs
17:16:06 <PleasingFungus> so they're just flavor
17:16:08 <PleasingFungus> uh
17:16:10 <PleasingFungus> I place up to four
17:16:23 <gammafunk> ok, well that's better
17:16:36 <gammafunk> yeah just a single one will be basicaly tab fodder
17:17:09 <gammafunk> it also depends on what weapons you give them, but I'm not sure doing anything there is wise
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17:18:45 <gammafunk> yeah were I to do this, I'd be trying to find some nice little way to make them feel different from fighting a "rethemed orc knight", but I'm actually not very sure how well they are differentiated already
17:18:58 <gammafunk> presumably the subspecies stuff does that
17:19:20 <gammafunk> ??demonspawn
17:19:21 <Sequell> demonspawn[1/4]: A race that is pretty average, but gets 5 semi-random good mutations. Has a 1/10 chance of being {monstrous}. Demonspawn mutations are irrevocable and unalterable, and drawn from a special list.
17:19:24 <gammafunk> ??demonspawn[2
17:19:25 <Sequell> ds mutation rules[1/5]: Assuming you aren't monstrous, you get five facets, each consisting of three mutations (which usually just stack together). You will get one scales-type facet, one body-slot facet, two tier 2 facets, and one tier 3 facet.
17:19:27 <gammafunk> ??demonspawn[3
17:19:27 <Sequell> demonspawn[3/4]: Demonspawn enemies live in Pan. There are five bases of mutation clumpings and god-based classes, akin to draconians. Monstrous Ds have auxes and high health, gelid Ds have rC++ and 10 ac until hit with fire once, infernal Ds have rF++ and af_fire, putrid Ds heal from any ally deaths in LOS, torturous Ds have spines, augmentation, PbP.
17:19:50 <gammafunk> ah those could do something
17:20:11 <gammafunk> tbh they probably would matter a lot more in orc:4 then they do in Pan, those facets
17:20:16 <MarvinPA> i've never noticed the facets
17:20:19 <gammafunk> yep
17:20:32 <gammafunk> "oh, that one's blue..."
17:20:37 <MarvinPA> non-classed ds probably should not spawn at all
17:21:10 <MarvinPA> (in pan)
17:21:17 <gammafunk> I thought that was the case; they only show up e.g. the species vaults?
17:21:37 <gammafunk> oh, when you say non-classed, you mean e.g. black sun
17:21:40 <MarvinPA> right
17:21:50 <gammafunk> er the opposite of that I guess
17:22:19 <evilmike> i've said here before, i think the "mutation" flavours of enemy ds should all be removed
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17:22:27 <evilmike> and just focus on the priest classes instead
17:22:38 <MarvinPA> i don't think they work very well overall yeah
17:22:40 <evilmike> the mutation facets just add clutter to the names, they barely have a gameplay effect
17:22:51 <evilmike> compared to say, draconians, who mostly get powerful ranged attacks
17:22:53 <MarvinPA> much less so than draconians for sure
17:23:16 <gammafunk> I guess for bands, we *could* give the priest-ds actual demon escorts instead of the non-classed ds?
17:23:22 <evilmike> yeah
17:23:25 <MarvinPA> that way the classed demonspawn monsters could actually be called demonspawn, too
17:23:48 <MarvinPA> because what on earth is a gelid black sun
17:25:45 <PleasingFungus> my position is that there shouldn't be any kind of combination between class & race
17:26:04 <MarvinPA> their bands already don't have many unclassed demonspawn, they used to have huge bands and it was awful
17:26:05 <PleasingFungus> a black sun should just be a black sun; they're quite complicated enough without the sort-of-like-draconians-but-more-obtuse thing
17:26:34 <MarvinPA> now i think they get a demon or another classed ds as their band, and maybe 1 nonclassed ds too
17:26:39 <simmarine> wow are ds finally gonna be worth looking at individually when i play now
17:27:12 <Cheibriados> Change monster holiness into a bitfield. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9375 by ebering
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17:49:51 <ebering> !learn del multi_holiness[3
17:49:52 <Sequell> Deleted multi holiness[3/4]: ghost crabs MH_NATURAL | MH_UNDEAD (already special cased for their flames), apis MH_HOLY | MH_NATURAL (special cased in is_beast), aboms/crawlies MH_UNDEAD | MH_DEMONIC (special cased in _fire_kill_conducts) or just pick one
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17:50:05 <ebering> !learn del multi_holiness[3
17:50:05 <Sequell> Deleted multi holiness[3/3]: Hell Hounds, hell hogs, and hellephants NATURAL | DEMONIC (but should they be beasts?)
17:50:17 <ebering> !learn del multi_holiness[2
17:50:18 <Sequell> Deleted multi holiness[2/2]: Todo:  give relevant monsters multi flags. player multi flags???
17:50:32 <ebering> !learn del multi_holiness[1
17:50:33 <Sequell> Deleted multi holiness[1/1]: ebering is working on a patch to make holiness a bitfield. Please add monsters that should have more than one holiness bit to this
17:51:47 <ebering> oh hm I forgot aboms/crawlies
17:52:00 <PleasingFungus> you will never be forgiven
17:52:40 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: fwiw, I'm not super excited about the idea of returning more generic 3s and 4s to pan (re removing non-classed demonspawn)
17:53:00 <PleasingFungus> they're all fodder anyway, but at least demonspawn have corpses
17:55:46 <Bloax> most demonspawn are cannonfodder at that point
17:56:08 <Bloax> most 2s are too o_O
17:56:31 <theTower> obviously we need explosive ufetubi
17:56:38 <Bloax> yes
17:56:48 <PleasingFungus> theTower: did you see the vault that sparked this conversation
17:58:34 <theTower> looking at it now
17:59:58 <theTower> really, not even token demon placements
18:00:42 <PleasingFungus> could toss a couple in the corridors, I guess
18:00:47 <PleasingFungus> instead of the orc wario spam
18:01:21 <theTower> plain orcs and 5s are roughly analogous >_>
18:03:18 <theTower> as last time this came up, I'd prefer either a single mutation facet per class for ds, or pf's splitting of the two entirely
18:04:50 <Bloax> what would the difference between wario and orc wario even be
18:05:22 <theTower> (and once more my mind turns to how to tweak each of the classes, since apparently nobody notices their problems with the fascets part ontop >_>)
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18:10:42 <PleasingFungus> theTower: the plain orc spam is intentional. they're flavor orcs
18:11:01 <PleasingFungus> should give them some gold so they can shop
18:11:15 <theTower> yes, I mean you can fit low 5 chances into the orcs with no impact
18:11:34 <theTower> (well, more flavour impact)
18:12:03 <theTower> also ha ha ha doing that without default_[equipment] arrangements
18:12:05 <PleasingFungus> I was thinking about the guys in the - middle corridor? not-quite-inner corridor?
18:12:27 <PleasingFungus> those warriors, which I only added because I ran the numbers on xp and saw the vault was hilariously light compared to other orc ends
18:12:35 <PleasingFungus> (likewise some of the high priests/sorcerers)
18:12:44 <PleasingFungus> (though I think they don't need replacement)
18:13:04 <theTower> I am not very concerned about experience from orc
18:13:14 <PleasingFungus> orc:4 gives experience
18:13:20 <PleasingFungus> some
18:13:49 <Cheibriados> hellwing (154) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 36-57 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 17, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, fly, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 334 | Sp: teleport other [06!sil], teleport self [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Large | Int: normal.

18:13:49 <PleasingFungus> %??hellwing
18:13:51 <theTower> it fluctuates wildly because of the heavy plain orc bit on the population thing and the bands as a branch and is much lower after pan
18:13:55 <theTower> ...
18:13:55 <Cheibriados> orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 17-39 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 134 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

18:13:55 <PleasingFungus> %??orc warrior
18:13:56 <theTower> after lair
18:14:01 <PleasingFungus> also after pan
18:14:05 <theTower> also true
18:14:43 <PleasingFungus> will be back in a bit
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18:22:27 <gammafunk> pan -> orc is my preferred route as well
18:30:53 <theTower> clearly we need a corresponding orc vault in pan
18:31:00 <theTower> and a corresponding lair vault in hell
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19:34:20 <minmay> can i resubmit min_nethack yet
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19:52:48 <gammafunk> .gmap -tv:<3
19:52:54 <Sequell> 103. magicpoints, XL9 NaVM, T:2225 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
19:52:59 <gammafunk> er
19:54:05 <gammafunk> !tell magicpoints got you: !lg magicpoints navm place=lair:5
19:54:05 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let magicpoints know.
19:54:31 <gammafunk> .gmap -tv:<3 -2
19:54:40 <Sequell> 102/103. Gerad, XL22 DDFi, T:58255 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
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20:11:37 <minmay> .td
20:11:38 <Sequell> 8. FearTheChris, XL11 VSMo, T:9958 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
20:12:16 <minmay> good power leap usage there
20:12:26 <minmay> gammafunk: so are you committing min_nethack or not
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20:23:13 <PleasingFungus> minmay: tell me about min_nethack
20:25:15 <minmay> PleasingFungus: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10110&p=140639#p140639
20:25:29 <PleasingFungus> heh
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20:34:27 <doy> heh
20:37:37 <bh> %git gyre
20:37:37 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit gyre (git returned 128)
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20:38:50 <bh> "This is a list of often-suggested concepts that will deliberately never be designed for various reasons: Dual wielding" :)
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20:39:54 <Grunt> mm that vault still amuses me
20:40:17 <Grunt> could only be better with a plus:-3 on the long sword or something
20:40:19 <PleasingFungus> bh: ya
20:41:18 <doy> i just stumbled upon the chokoban vault when looking through some vaults earlier
20:41:23 <doy> it was pretty funny
20:45:49 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3466-g214a233: Mark un-id'd staffs blue by default (XuaXua) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=214a233b9526
20:48:31 <gammafunk> minmay: oh I get it
20:48:35 <gammafunk> nice vault
20:48:45 <gammafunk> man, I lost some good knights that way too
20:49:06 <gammafunk> well, that early, how good could they have been I guess
20:49:14 <gammafunk> let's just say that knights were lost that way
20:49:30 <gammafunk> doy: got chokoban two games in a row
20:49:31 <gammafunk> pretty sweet
20:49:35 <bh> gammafunk: :)
20:49:43 <gammafunk> I enjoyed the fruit bh
20:49:51 <gammafunk> too bad I think they both died
20:49:57 <doy> i just played through some nethack a couple weeks ago
20:50:28 <doy> turns out, i can still do all sokoban levels basically flawlessly
20:50:39 <doy> so much useless knowledge and muscle memory
20:50:41 <doy> (:
20:51:01 <PleasingFungus> very proud
20:51:06 <bh> gammafunk: I could replace the fruit with large rocks
20:51:21 <PleasingFungus> imo just force the tile to be chokos
20:51:23 <PleasingFungus> I think that's a thing you can do
20:51:28 <PleasingFungus> !lg * kmap~~pf_
20:51:29 <Sequell> 8. osklington the Whirler (L13 HaHu of Okawaru), mangled by an eight-headed hydra (kmap: pf_torpor_hydra) on Lair:5 on 2014-11-24 01:31:32, with 24796 points after 19301 turns and 3:49:56.
20:52:14 <gammafunk> I actually don't think you can do that
20:52:17 <gammafunk> since they're items
20:52:39 <gammafunk> and there's no custom tile functionality for items, since that would be ultra-terrible
20:52:52 <gammafunk> which is almost entirely terrible
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20:53:40 <gammafunk> magicpoints: sorry, it was just that I saw this
20:53:56 <gammafunk> !lg magicpoints place=lair:5 x=kmap
20:53:57 <Sequell> 8. [killermap=gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake] magicpoints the Tainter (L9 NaVM of Zin), annihilated by a komodo dragon on Lair:5 (gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake) on 2015-01-01 22:25:09, with 1925 points after 2225 turns and 0:33:24.
20:54:03 <PleasingFungus> there is custom tile functionality for anubis staves
20:54:39 <Grunt> uncannily terrible
20:54:41 <gammafunk> I think that's conditional on the mosnter
20:54:48 <Grunt> It is.
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20:54:56 <gammafunk> and anyhow not settable in a vault for sure
20:55:07 <PleasingFungus> feh
20:55:15 <PleasingFungus> man remember
20:55:16 <gammafunk> Ashenzari warns you, "Grunt is."
20:55:19 <PleasingFungus> right before fruit reform
20:55:27 <PleasingFungus> there was this guy who submitted a flurry of strawberry tiles
20:55:33 <gammafunk> heh, yeah
20:55:42 <roctavian> i still plan to update fruit tiles
20:55:48 <Grunt> roctavian spotted
20:55:53 <PleasingFungus> which tiles do you not plan to update
20:56:02 <roctavian> it drives me crazy that they aren't size-consistent with each other
20:56:02 <roctavian> right?
20:56:03 <gammafunk> roctavian: are you trying to burn crawl to the ground or something?!
20:56:29 <roctavian> i have a scratchfile document that basically contains every crawl tile
20:56:44 <doy> haha, size-consistent and crawl
20:56:45 <roctavian> by scratchfile i mean a png but you get the idea
20:56:46 <doy> that's funny
20:57:12 <roctavian> weapons are consistent by size
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20:57:35 <roctavian> we're gradually getting somewhere
21:00:47 <roctavian> also, any thoughts about these gents: http://i.imgur.com/dG2OPuc.png
21:01:06 <PleasingFungus> eustachio is in the top-right
21:01:21 <PleasingFungus> terence bottom-right, edmund top-left?
21:01:22 <roctavian> who are the rest? i think it's figurable
21:01:27 <PleasingFungus> and... maurice bottom-left?
21:01:32 <roctavian> yup
21:01:34 <PleasingFungus> huh
21:01:36 <roctavian> no
21:01:38 <PleasingFungus> o
21:01:42 <roctavian> last one is donald
21:01:43 <Grunt> that's Donald
21:01:44 <Grunt> yeah
21:02:02 <roctavian> same hair, and now his outfit is more like his namesake
21:02:05 <minmay> oh, i thought it was medieval mega man
21:02:10 <PleasingFungus> huh. someone was talking about how crawl communicates threat through how much of the tile is taken up by the sprite
21:02:21 <roctavian> not exactly true
21:02:23 <PleasingFungus> that donald does not take up much space (and that eustachio takes up a lot!)
21:03:04 <Grunt> roctavian: very important question:
21:03:08 <Grunt> how does that Donald look with
21:03:10 <Grunt> his shield
21:03:22 <minmay> PleasingFungus: eustachio used to be a big scary threat though. he was an elf unique
21:03:25 <roctavian> not great, but i don't think his shield looks great at present
21:03:29 <Grunt> mmm
21:03:34 <PleasingFungus> minmay: !?
21:03:40 <roctavian> gonna fix it up just a little
21:03:57 <minmay> PleasingFungus: checkout 0.5 if you don't believe me, he used to appear in elf
21:04:45 <roctavian> i was thinking of making a new harold tile, but every time i start i wonder "will he still be in the game next week"
21:05:08 <minmay> harold is one of the scariest uniques in the game that isn't in the first few d levels
21:05:20 <PleasingFungus> also, he has unique death lines
21:05:21 <PleasingFungus> !!!
21:05:28 <PleasingFungus> flavor AND mechanics
21:05:30 <roctavian> i do like those
21:05:32 <PleasingFungus> and also the net thing that's finally working
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21:05:56 <PleasingFungus> norris is a deathwatch unique, but I think harold is reasonably safe
21:06:21 <PleasingFungus> (erica is also iffy but tbh I think she's safe by virtue of the fact that no one remembers she exists)
21:07:24 <Grunt> Harold got considerably more viable when his throwing nets got fixed
21:07:27 <minmay> you can't remove erica. she's comely!
21:07:37 <Grunt> also I remember Erica
21:07:42 <Grunt> because scimitar of flaming
21:07:45 <roctavian> right
21:07:49 <roctavian> she's more a treasure
21:07:52 <minmay> ??danei
21:07:52 <Sequell> danei[1/5]: Promised to write Louise/Margery erotic fan-fiction
21:07:58 <gammafunk> erica can get you if you're not careful
21:08:01 <minmay> oh, I thought it was erica/margery
21:09:37 <gammafunk> could anything top the sonja/pikel "art" though
21:10:19 <minmay> ??fanfiction[4]
21:10:20 <Sequell> fanfiction[4/9]: "Duvessa", by minmay (NSFW): http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/crawl/duvessa_erotic_on_bed_hires.jpg
21:10:35 <PleasingFungus> !killratio erica * recent
21:10:38 <Sequell> erica wins 1.308% of battles against * (recent).
21:10:41 <PleasingFungus> ehhhh
21:10:49 <gammafunk> that's really not bad
21:10:50 <PleasingFungus> she's a little weak for her depth, but having the treasure is good
21:10:52 <Grunt> !killratio harold * recent
21:10:55 <Sequell> harold wins 2.228% of battles against * (recent).
21:11:01 <Grunt> !killratio fannar * recent
21:11:04 <Sequell> fannar wins 1.955% of battles against * (recent).
21:11:11 <gammafunk> I mean I'd be fine with a erica buff I guess
21:11:17 <PleasingFungus> idk, I don't so much think that she's overly weak as that she's overly bland
21:11:28 <gammafunk> well harold is very bland
21:11:31 <PleasingFungus> she's from the old school of unique design
21:11:39 <PleasingFungus> "toss some random spells at a wall and call it a day"
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21:11:53 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus Jozef
21:11:53 <Sequell> Sending Jozef to PleasingFungus.
21:12:07 <minmay> harold seems like one of the least bland uniques to me
21:12:23 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: harold has nets (mechanical gimmick) AND a boat/farm/etc (flavor gimmick) AND bolt of fire in lair (killpower)
21:12:28 <minmay> his spell set is actually scary
21:12:31 <PleasingFungus> ya
21:12:44 <PleasingFungus> and the nets also serve as treasure
21:12:49 <PleasingFungus> he's the full package
21:12:50 <gammafunk> that's just the oppossite of wht you were talkinng about
21:13:02 <PleasingFungus> ?
21:13:09 <gammafunk> you said it's not that she's overly weak it's that she's overly "bland"
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21:13:20 <gammafunk> as if bland meant something other than being dangerous
21:13:24 <PleasingFungus> it does
21:13:33 <PleasingFungus> she has no obvious mechanical theme
21:13:41 <PleasingFungus> beyond "shitty knock-off sigmund"
21:13:42 <gammafunk> mechanical...what
21:13:44 <minmay> well ignacio is as dangerous as like 2.5 executioners but he's still bland
21:13:49 <minmay> because he's the same as like 2.5 executioners
21:14:15 <PleasingFungus> gammafunk: she has a bunch of spells that don't really interact in any interesting ways or combine in any meaningful ways
21:14:18 <PleasingFungus> and she has a scimitar
21:14:26 <PleasingFungus> which likewise doesn't interact with her spells
21:14:29 <roctavian> and a cocktail dress
21:14:33 <PleasingFungus> does she still
21:14:36 <Grunt> yes
21:14:50 <Cheibriados> Erica (06@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 64 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 929 | Sp: b.venom (3d14), mystic blast (3d14), invisibility, confuse, slow, teleport self [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

21:14:50 <gammafunk> %??erica
21:15:02 <PleasingFungus> god, I didn't remember she had venom bolt
21:15:12 <gammafunk> if the complaint is that she has "too many spells", sure I guess
21:15:16 <gammafunk> she does have a lot
21:15:17 <Grunt> Venom Bolt and Invisibility are the two spells I always remember she has.
21:15:23 <PleasingFungus> for me it's invis and mystic blast
21:15:36 <PleasingFungus> it's like
21:15:46 <doy> for me it's invis and the flaming sword
21:15:48 <minmay> for me it's invis, mystic blast, venom bolt, and confuse
21:15:49 <gammafunk> but I'm not sure what all you can expect out of spell combining anyhow
21:15:53 <PleasingFungus> well obviously the flaming sword
21:15:54 <gammafunk> haha
21:16:07 <Cheibriados> ironheart preserver (09p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 60-93 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 1037 | Sp: injury bond, minor healing (2d6) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

21:16:07 <PleasingFungus> %??ironheart preserver
21:16:10 <gammafunk> yeah I think we're kind of just hand-waving here anyhow
21:16:10 <Grunt> I can kind of envision reflavouring Erica as a hydra hunter - keep the scimitar (obv), Invis (can't bite what you can't see), possibly IMB (beat them up from afar from a bit, though most people then are probably using bolt spells from wands)
21:16:21 <PleasingFungus> injury bond and minor healing have some pretty obvious synergy
21:16:21 <gammafunk> but if someone wants to make her more "focused" that sounds find to me
21:16:22 <gammafunk> *fine
21:16:28 <Cheibriados> Sigmund (08@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 30 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 104 | Sp: throw flame (3d5), invisibility, magic dart (3d4), confuse | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

21:16:28 <PleasingFungus> %??sigmund
21:16:44 <gammafunk> what's "combinatorial" about sigmunds spells
21:16:52 <gammafunk> if erica's don't combine
21:16:57 <PleasingFungus> maximum new-player killing (invis + confuse)
21:16:58 <Grunt> gammafunk: what's the first thing that happens when a new player encounters Sigmund?
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21:17:16 <doy> !lg * recent ckiller=sigmund s=ckaux
21:17:17 <Sequell> 20123 games for * (recent ckiller=sigmund): 9171x scythe, 3704x puff of flame, 2981x magic dart, 622x scythe of protection, 485x scythe of venom, 435x, 396x scythe of slicing, 334x wand of flame, 318x scythe of flaming, 317x scythe of freezing, 277x wand of frost, 274x wand of magic darts, 237x scythe of dragon slaying, 201x vampiric scythe, 138x scythe of distortion, 93x scythe of pain, 50x antim...
21:17:19 <gammafunk> what's the first thing that happens when new players do anything?
21:17:29 <minmay> gammafunk: sigmund just has one of the orc wizard spellbooks
21:17:31 <gammafunk> it sounds like people want her to have just like "two things"
21:17:38 <gammafunk> which is ok
21:17:40 <doy> !lg * recent ckiller=sigmund s=ckaux ckaux!~scythe
21:17:41 <Sequell> 8035 games for * (recent ckiller=sigmund ckaux!~scythe): 3704x puff of flame, 2981x magic dart, 435x, 334x wand of flame, 277x wand of frost, 274x wand of magic darts, 12x exploding inner flame, 4x ball of steam, 3x wand of cold, 3x wand of draining, 2x mace of chaos, 2x hand axe of chaos, wand of disintegration, wand of lightning, steam, spear of chaos
21:17:45 <PleasingFungus> I didn't name a number, but some sort of mechanical focus would be good, yes
21:17:50 <Grunt> Sigmund is an orc wizard who isn't an orc and has a scythe and more HP
21:17:54 <PleasingFungus> I mean sigmund obviously comes out of the same school of design as erica
21:18:01 <PleasingFungus> the same old random spells mashed together
21:18:05 <PleasingFungus> but by sheer chance, for him
21:18:06 <PleasingFungus> it works
21:18:31 <PleasingFungus> the ranged spells were more important before his scythe got reaching, probably
21:18:41 <Cheibriados> ironbrand convoker (08p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 39-62 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 643 | Sp: might other, w.recall | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

21:18:41 <PleasingFungus> %??ironbrand convoker
21:18:47 <PleasingFungus> recall monsters and buff them
21:18:57 <Grunt> !send PleasingFungus Unbelievers
21:18:57 <Sequell> Sending Unbelievers to PleasingFungus.
21:19:02 * PleasingFungus disbelieves!
21:19:16 <gammafunk> It sounds like we like uniques a bit later on to just be more strongly themed in terms of their spells
21:19:26 <PleasingFungus> s/uniques a bit later on/monsters/
21:19:30 <gammafunk> but if the complaint is she's weaker than harold, well that's fixable without changing her much
21:19:39 <PleasingFungus> that is not my complaint
21:19:42 <PleasingFungus> as established
21:19:51 <minmay> what is your complaint
21:20:02 <PleasingFungus> [19:14]	PleasingFungus	gammafunk: she has a bunch of spells that don't really interact in any interesting ways or combine in any meaningful ways
21:20:18 <PleasingFungus> [19:11]	PleasingFungus	idk, I don't so much think that she's overly weak as that she's overly bland
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21:21:26 <gammafunk> well it just sounds very subjective what statements like that are supposed to mean, but if you come up with something that maybe focuses her spell set a bit more without duplicating some other unique/monster
21:21:28 <gammafunk> sounds like we agree that would be good
21:22:11 <gammafunk> I remember the Frances haggling that occurred quite some time ago
21:22:14 <gammafunk> we almost lost Frances
21:22:45 <roctavian> rip francis
21:23:02 <minmay> gammafunk: and then cheese got removed anyway, so we don't have any use for all these frances
21:23:08 <roctavian> rip franciz, francis's son with jozef
21:23:21 <gammafunk> minmay: that's going straight into tiles chat
21:25:31 <PleasingFungus> Straight Outta Tiles Chat
21:25:43 <Grunt> 1learn add reserved_clan_names
21:26:32 <Bloax> roctavian: how does a man get a son from another man
21:26:38 <roctavian> adoption
21:27:01 <Bloax> how did they manage to name him Franciz then
21:27:17 <Bloax> (surprise adoption!)
21:28:02 <roctavian> you can name a kid you adopt. i don't know if there's a cutoff where you can't
21:30:11 <PleasingFungus> !lg * end>=2015 1
21:30:12 <Sequell> 1/2532. Ramza the Firebug (L3 DEFE), succumbed to a giant mite's poison on D:3 on 2015-01-01 00:00:40, with 60 points after 1148 turns and 0:04:07.
21:30:25 <PleasingFungus> !hs * end>=2015 1
21:30:25 <Sequell> 1/2532. RustyMuffler the Sneak (L1 SpAs), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0 club) on D:1 (ncdulo_wetmaze) on 2015-01-01 00:07:13, with 0 points after 11 turns and 0:00:43.
21:30:28 <PleasingFungus> !hs * end>=2015
21:30:28 <Sequell> 2532. cosmonaut the Petrodigitator (L27 GrEE of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-01-01 05:04:38, with 17689509 points after 88049 turns and 9:13:37.
21:30:29 <Grunt> !lg * start>=2015 1
21:30:30 <Sequell> 1/2295. pmiller623 the Insei (L2 DgTm), blasted by Sigmund (puff of flame) on D:2 on 2015-01-01 00:02:18, with 25 points after 1123 turns and 0:02:10.
21:30:33 <Grunt> !hs * start>=2015 1
21:30:34 <Sequell> 1/2295. RustyMuffler the Sneak (L1 SpAs), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0 club) on D:1 (ncdulo_wetmaze) on 2015-01-01 00:07:13, with 0 points after 11 turns and 0:00:43.
21:30:47 <PleasingFungus> !lg * end>=2015 won 1
21:30:48 <Sequell> 1/22. AF8711 the Conqueror (L27 OgHu of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-01-01 00:17:50, with 1601643 points after 82865 turns and 5:15:22.
21:31:05 <PleasingFungus> !hs * start>=2015
21:31:05 <Sequell> 2296. Zooty the Sensei (L27 VSTm of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-01-01 19:13:44, with 1719187 points after 72202 turns and 5:07:05.
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21:59:57 <PleasingFungus> hm
22:00:07 <PleasingFungus> I'm wondering if shoals-lite would be a good excuse to break save compat
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22:01:14 <doy> shoals-lite?
22:02:47 <Grunt> %git shoals-lite
22:02:47 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3203-g0731a9c: Streamline Shoals 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 8+ 189-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0731a9c6d895
22:05:16 <PleasingFungus> when I made that, |amethyst raised the reasonable concern of people becoming perma-stranded
22:05:42 <PleasingFungus> we can fix that by messing around with hatches & vetoes in newly-generated levels
22:06:08 <PleasingFungus> but for old levels...?
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22:11:28 <minmay> *starts crawl game*
22:11:37 <minmay> PleasingFungus: convert all water on old levels to floor, it's the only way to be sure
22:12:22 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:12:26 <PleasingFungus> good call
22:13:05 <PleasingFungus> also, unironically, you could probably convert all deep water into shallow water on pre-conversion shoals levels
22:13:10 <PleasingFungus> ugly but workable
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22:22:56 <johnstein> ??shoals-lite
22:22:56 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled shoals-lite in my learndb.
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22:23:47 <PleasingFungus> !learn add shoals-lite Tides only go between shallow water & land (never deep water); ten times faster than classic crawl. Modeled off what word of mouth claims Crawl Lite does with Shoals.
22:23:48 <Sequell> shoals-lite[1/1]: Tides only go between shallow water & land (never deep water); ten times faster than classic crawl. Modeled off what word of mouth claims Crawl Lite does with Shoals.
22:23:49 <rbluntz> Anyone know of a guide or other resources for wizard mode? Specifically item creation?
22:24:09 <PleasingFungus> it uses the same syntax as vault items, so docs/develop/level/ might be helpful
22:24:12 <PleasingFungus> what exactly do you want to know?
22:25:05 <rbluntz> How to add different attributes to created items.
22:25:22 <theTower> word of mouth
22:25:33 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:25:39 <theTower> maybe I should just never talk about anything, ever
22:25:50 <Bloax> 
22:26:21 <ontoclasm> i thought crawl lite just had no tides at all
22:26:38 <PleasingFungus> what
22:26:51 <PleasingFungus> I don't think you were the person who talked about it
22:26:51 <theTower> no, I am pretty sure it has shallow water tides
22:26:55 <PleasingFungus> certainly not the only person
22:27:03 <PleasingFungus> rbluntz: what kind of attributes?
22:27:23 <PleasingFungus> &%dagger ego:flaming plus:5 ident:type
22:27:27 <theTower> more than pretty sure it has terrain advantage and nerfed merfolk classes to use that
22:27:31 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3467-gfe061fe: Tweak xv cloud description format 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fe061fe2bf07
22:27:34 <PleasingFungus> that's a thing you can do
22:27:34 <theTower> good old 0.8 lair branches
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22:32:29 <PleasingFungus> yo
22:33:02 <PleasingFungus> hm, this is odd
22:33:20 <PleasingFungus> this claims that regen/withdrawn make monsters heal exactly 1 hp per turn
22:33:23 <PleasingFungus> same as fast regen
22:33:27 <Cheibriados> hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 58-86 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 976 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile.

22:33:27 <PleasingFungus> %??hydra
22:33:28 <Cheibriados> snapping turtle (03t) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 45-75 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Dam: 30(reach) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 251 | Sz: Medium | Int: reptile.

22:33:28 <PleasingFungus> %??snapping turtle
22:33:43 <PleasingFungus> that doesn't sound like a big deal
22:33:48 <PleasingFungus> *once per monster turn
22:34:44 <rbluntz> @+PleasingFungus Just random things really, but multiple. Like AC, EV, Strength, MP +4, Clar etc.
22:35:05 <PleasingFungus> oh
22:35:05 <PleasingFungus> artefact properties
22:35:15 <rbluntz> I can create items, but they only have one attrib
22:35:20 <PleasingFungus> you need to make them into a randart
22:35:27 <PleasingFungus> there's a function for that listed in &?
22:35:32 <PleasingFungus> then you can tweak the properties somehow
22:35:36 <rbluntz> Yeah
22:35:43 <rbluntz> But it's not helpful at all
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22:35:59 <rbluntz> No documentation for all the different options
22:36:04 <PleasingFungus> oh
22:36:07 <PleasingFungus> just &+ choose a thing
22:36:09 <rbluntz> and there are quite a few
22:36:16 <PleasingFungus> then &-c and choose a thing
22:36:37 <PleasingFungus> I don't think there are any docs on what artefact properties do, sorry
22:36:44 <PleasingFungus> o
22:36:46 <PleasingFungus> maybe in the manual
22:37:00 <PleasingFungus> yeah https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest search for e.g. *tele
22:37:05 <PleasingFungus> that covers most
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22:38:54 <rbluntz> Excellent, thank you!
22:39:02 <PleasingFungus> np
22:39:03 <rbluntz> This should help.
22:39:04 <PleasingFungus> good luck!
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22:54:30 <PleasingFungus> are there any circumstances where petrify actually stops creatures from flying?
22:55:02 <minmay> H monsters probably
22:55:11 <PleasingFungus> I'll test
22:55:51 <PleasingFungus> seems to be doing just fine
22:56:09 <PleasingFungus> hanging out in deep water, extra airstrike damage, etc
22:56:58 <minmay> I guess it was broken at some point
22:57:12 <PleasingFungus> I had a discussion with someone about it months ago
22:57:19 <minmay> or was the lev/fly distinction finally removed for monsters
22:57:22 <Cheibriados> Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 9161 | Sp: glaciate (10-132) [06!sil], conjure ball lightning [06!sil], major healing [06!sil], tornado [06!sil], blink range [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high.

22:57:22 <minmay> %??lom lobon
22:57:22 <PleasingFungus> where the claim was that it would be too cheap as an "instant kill"
22:57:26 <Cheibriados> harpy (03H) | Spd: 25 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 19, 14 | fly | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison | XP: 620 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

22:57:26 <minmay> %??harpy
22:57:30 <minmay> wow, no it isn't
22:57:34 <minmay> fuck crawl
22:57:35 <PleasingFungus> I think that was with MarvinPA
22:57:37 <PleasingFungus> actually
22:57:45 <PleasingFungus> re petrify and flying monsters
22:58:05 <minmay> well someone go remove monster levitation, now that it's identical to monster flight
22:58:05 <MarvinPA> wha
22:58:10 <PleasingFungus> maybe it wasn't, I'll search
22:58:39 <minmay> MarvinPA: how do you feel about removing something, just for old times' sake
22:58:52 <MarvinPA> i could always go for a good removal
22:59:17 <MarvinPA> i really thought lev/flight was just cosmetic now
22:59:40 <PleasingFungus> looks like it is, though I'm not 100% sure
22:59:41 <minmay> MarvinPA: yes it appears to be so why is it still a thing, it changes like 2 words in the monster description
22:59:45 <MarvinPA> i think nothing falls into water when petrified? because petrify is magic, same as paralyse
22:59:52 <MarvinPA> that was always how i argued for it to be anyway
23:00:07 <MarvinPA> if it really is just cosmetic then it;'s weird for it to exist at all though yeah
23:00:36 <PleasingFungus> here's something from march where bcadren asks whether petrify makes harpies stop flying, and |amethyst says yes
23:00:57 <minmay> that's because it did until somebody changed it
23:01:23 <PleasingFungus> didn't realize it was that recent
23:01:25 <minmay> shoals harpies were the only reason i kept petrify on a few EEs
23:01:51 <PleasingFungus> ah ha it *was* you
23:02:06 <PleasingFungus> but we were talking about nets
23:02:18 <PleasingFungus> and petrify came up as a side thing
23:03:34 <MarvinPA> oh yeah i think it's definitely cosmetic now because i remember removing the dead code that would insta-kill a flying player when they were petrified over water?
23:03:50 <MarvinPA> (bat form and dragon form were marked as levitating rather than flying to prevent this from triggering)
23:03:55 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-3467-gfe061fe (34)
23:04:13 <PleasingFungus> there's a chance it does something for monsters but not players
23:04:15 <PleasingFungus> not a large chance
23:04:51 <MarvinPA> i feel like maybe reaverb got rid of the effect on monsters
23:04:56 <PleasingFungus> augh
23:05:02 <MarvinPA> if that helps find the commit
23:05:26 <PleasingFungus> it's good
23:05:37 <MarvinPA> i've forgotten how to git, not that i ever was particularly adept
23:07:37 <PleasingFungus> git log --author=reaverb doesn't find anything involving [Pp]etrif[yi] or [Ff]l[yi]
23:07:41 <PleasingFungus> so idk
23:07:52 <PleasingFungus> or [Ll]evit
23:08:15 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3468-g3fc247e: Don't claim Petrify stops flight 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3fc247e238d0
23:08:22 <PleasingFungus> %git ef23590caf89787e64e73b804e762eff01307d52
23:08:22 <Cheibriados> 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-1064-gef23590: Don't say "levitation" to the player, ever. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 9 files, 81+ 74-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef23590caf89
23:08:28 <PleasingFungus> this seems to be the closest thing
23:08:37 <MarvinPA> there was definitely something more recent than that
23:08:52 <PleasingFungus> ya, certainly that description of behaviour is out of date
23:13:16 <MarvinPA> i guess FL_WINGED does currently have gameplay effects, just barely?
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23:13:58 <MarvinPA> winged stuff doesn't count as airborne if it's caught in a net or paralysed or whatever, but this doesn't actually drown it? but it does make it get knocked back less by knockback beams
23:14:19 <PleasingFungus> tbh that sounds more like a bug than like good behaviour
23:14:37 <PleasingFungus> esp since I think they still take extra damage from airstrike? seemed like it when I was testing (based on the messages)
23:14:42 <MarvinPA> and winged+caught monsters can be shafted by the shaft card!
23:14:43 <PleasingFungus> just mega inconsistent
23:14:45 <PleasingFungus> haha
23:14:50 <PleasingFungus> right I remember testing that
23:14:55 <PleasingFungus> it was relevant to something
23:15:07 <MarvinPA> but yeah it seems like there are like, two checks that use actor::airborne
23:15:10 <PleasingFungus> oh god, right, giant eyeballs caught in a net over a shaft
23:15:19 <MarvinPA> and everything else uses mons_flies or something which would ignore all of this entirely
23:15:31 <MarvinPA> in conclusion it's all a crazy mess
23:16:26 <PleasingFungus> 1learn add crawlcode
23:16:28 <MarvinPA> i'll try and take a look at it sometime if nobody else does, not today though
23:17:01 <PleasingFungus> no rush, probably
23:20:39 <|amethyst> why don't flying monsters trigger shafts in general?
23:20:49 <PleasingFungus> I guess they probably do now
23:20:52 <PleasingFungus> this was a while ago
23:21:13 <PleasingFungus> the bug was that you could net a monster over the shaft and then the net would fall in without the monster, something like that
23:21:34 <PleasingFungus> !bug 990
23:21:34 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=990
23:22:43 <PleasingFungus> I guess someone should check how much of this is still a thing
23:22:48 <PleasingFungus> probably the lava is
23:23:41 <MarvinPA> nets work totally different now than they did then i think? entirely feasible that something would break in a different way though
23:23:52 <PleasingFungus> this was true as recent as 0.15
23:23:58 <MarvinPA> ah ok
23:23:59 <PleasingFungus> as minmay noted (and as I reproduced but didn't bother to note)
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23:27:08 <MarvinPA> wow what's lzot
23:27:19 <MarvinPA> is that a leak of exciting secrets
23:27:57 <PleasingFungus> lesser zot trap A
23:28:06 <PleasingFungus> one of two new experimental trap types
23:28:22 <MarvinPA> aha
23:28:45 <PleasingFungus> hrm
23:29:09 <PleasingFungus> !lg * current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~"shadow trap" s=xl
23:29:10 <Sequell> 23 games for * (current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~'shadow trap'): 3x 2, 3x 3, 3x 7, 2x 9, 2x 1, 2x 8, 2x 5, 6, 14, 10, 18, 20, 17
23:29:15 <PleasingFungus> !lg * current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~"shadow trap" s=place
23:29:16 <Sequell> 23 games for * (current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~'shadow trap'): 4x D:6, 3x D:3, 3x D:5, 3x D:1, 2x D:4, 2x D:8, D:2, Vaults:4, Depths:3, D:7, Spider:1, Spider:3
23:29:40 <PleasingFungus> !lg * current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~"shadow trap" s=ikiller
23:29:41 <Sequell> 23 games for * (current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~'shadow trap'): 14x the player character, 2x a shadow trap, a spider, an adder, a jackal, an unseen horror, a hound, a hobgoblin, a crimson imp
23:29:56 <PleasingFungus> !lg * current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~"shadow trap" ikiller="a shadow trap"
23:29:57 <Sequell> 2. NewYearsCrawler the Cleaver (L10 FoFi of Okawaru), slain by a wight (a +1 halberd) (summoned by a shadow trap) on D:7 on 2015-01-01 20:43:54, with 2905 points after 6487 turns and 0:08:56.
23:30:06 <PleasingFungus> confusing
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23:31:16 <PleasingFungus> that's probably a bug
23:31:31 <PleasingFungus> !lg * current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~"shadow trap" ikiller="a shadow trap" s=killer
23:31:31 <Sequell> 2 games for * (current trunk vlong>=0.16-a0-3418-g08adb8f vmsg~~'shadow trap' ikiller='a shadow trap'): a deep troll, a wight
23:31:37 <PleasingFungus> yeah, bands
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23:33:21 <PleasingFungus> no idea how to fix that, tbh
23:35:30 <Grunt> PleasingFungus: I have an idea
23:35:35 <Grunt> let me delve a bit deeper
23:35:38 <PleasingFungus> !
23:35:48 <PleasingFungus> !gamesby NewYearsCrawler
23:35:48 <Sequell> NewYearsCrawler has played 42 games, between 2015-01-01 01:41:43 and 2015-01-02 04:06:16, won 0, high score 12632, total score 56191, total turns 152908, play-time/day 2:26:05, total time 4:52:10.
23:35:55 <PleasingFungus> !hs NewYearsCrawler
23:35:56 <Sequell> 42. NewYearsCrawler the Severer (L12 FoFi of Okawaru), slain by a centaur skeleton (led by Josephine) on D:12 on 2015-01-01 21:54:18, with 12632 points after 12204 turns and 0:25:42.
23:35:56 <Grunt> PleasingFungus: basically you're going to implicitly add_blame in the mgen_data blame field
23:36:00 <Grunt> once I figure out how that will work
23:36:01 <PleasingFungus> !
23:36:32 <Grunt> oh
23:36:40 <Grunt> I guess what I have in mind isn't going to work very well right now?
23:36:45 <PleasingFungus> ?
23:36:49 <Grunt> it could be done with a tweak to mons_add_blame though
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23:37:52 <Grunt> !source traps.cc:515
23:37:53 <Sequell> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/traps.cc;hb=HEAD#l515
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