00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:00:26 -!- qtip has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:01:06 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303 (34)
00:04:01 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:10:41 -!- tdphys has quit [Client Quit]
00:11:42 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:20:46 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:24:18 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev
00:24:26 <rax> finally got this fixed on CAO: /dev/xvda3      1.1T  640G  389G  63% /chroot
00:24:26 <Sequell> rax: You have 46 messages. Use !messages to read them.
00:24:39 <rax> sorry for the unexpected downtime, there was an issue and i grabbed the opportunity
00:29:18 <Rast-> geekosaur, are you saying my Cy win doesn't count?
00:29:33 <gammafunk> it doesn't count in sequell currently
00:29:35 <gammafunk> the data isn't lost
00:29:41 <gammafunk> still in its milestone file/logfile
00:29:51 <gammafunk> its meaning cbros
00:30:07 <gammafunk> actually I remember now that Cy is not an 'official' experimental yet
00:30:15 <Rast-> so how angry should i be?
00:30:34 <gammafunk> mad enough to donate to my twitch stream
00:31:08 <gammafunk> but yeah those game results are saved somewhere, not sure if they'll get loaded into sequell
00:32:06 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:32:28 <Rast-> hmm, a twitch stream... do you make snarky comments about trunk changes?
00:33:56 <gammafunk> I *get* some complaints about trunk changes, which I deftly redirect using topical humor and wit
00:34:17 <gammafunk> and of course there's the thrilling gammafunk gameplay
00:35:26 <gammafunk> |amethyst: johnstein: not sure if you can do anything about this, but see ra.x's message above regarding CAO; I can ssh in and load a game, but webtiles seems down still
00:38:11 -!- Lasty_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:40:39 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
00:45:32 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]]
00:49:42 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:57:40 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
00:58:07 <Henzell> Webtiles server started.
00:58:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: done
00:58:22 <gammafunk> thanks
00:58:23 <|amethyst> thanks
00:58:52 <johnstein> you just barely beat me
00:59:05 <gammafunk> beating johnstein is all that matters
01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:00:36 <gammafunk> !spd 14
01:00:36 <Sequell> 0.71 move delay for 14 spd.
01:00:59 <gammafunk> !spd 5
01:01:00 <Sequell> 2.0 move delay for 5 spd.
01:01:02 <gammafunk> !spd 25
01:01:02 <Sequell> 0.4 move delay for 25 spd.
01:04:00 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
01:11:29 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
01:13:16 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:18:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
01:19:20 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
01:19:27 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303 (34)
01:28:57 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Quit: Probably restarting if not leaving]
01:40:01 -!- aditya has quit [Client Quit]
01:41:03 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot]
01:45:56 -!- hollowman has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:56:36 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
01:56:54 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303
01:58:55 -!- petrov has quit [Quit: Page closed]
02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:20:27 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:35:51 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:47:06 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:47:11 -!- asdu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
02:52:32 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303
02:52:36 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:52:52 -!- eb_ has quit []
02:57:32 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
02:58:50 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:04:31 -!- nd has joined ##crawl-dev
03:05:04 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
03:08:45 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:10:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.]
03:12:17 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303 (34)
03:12:25 -!- Krall_ has quit [Quit: Page closed]
03:12:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
03:16:55 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:17:03 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:18:37 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:20:23 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
03:30:12 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:42:22 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here]
03:53:06 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:56:23 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
03:58:28 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev
04:00:08 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:04:29 -!- nd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
04:11:29 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
04:27:17 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:37:59 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev
04:44:39 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving]
04:54:36 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:54:56 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
04:55:35 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev
04:56:50 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev
05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:14:12 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:15:12 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
05:20:04 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:22:36 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:35:41 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
05:38:04 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
05:55:01 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:55:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev
05:57:30 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
05:57:38 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
05:58:21 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:00:39 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:04:09 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
06:04:34 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:11:10 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
06:14:14 -!- eki has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
06:17:13 -!- blank11 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
06:18:28 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host]
06:22:56 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev
06:23:39 <SteelNeuron> !messages
06:23:40 <Sequell> (1/2) Lasty said (11h 58m 44s ago): when you were checking logs, did you see my comment about invis monsters and the new moves?
06:23:56 <SteelNeuron> !message
06:23:56 <Sequell> You probably meant !messages, or possibly !tell.
06:24:01 <SteelNeuron> !messages
06:24:02 <Sequell> (1/1) Lasty said (11h 58m 16s ago): nm, you already answered that haha
06:25:25 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:25:41 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
06:25:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Changing host]
06:25:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
06:35:18 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev
06:35:37 <Yermak> Books no longer disappear from shoplist when you find them. Was it intended?
06:51:32 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:05:42 <Cheibriados> Books don't disappear from shoplist when you find them. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10900 by Yermak
07:06:44 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
07:09:04 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev
07:11:16 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev
07:26:19 <Cheibriados> Webtiles: visual exclusion bug 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10901 by Yermak
07:42:06 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:55:20 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:55:27 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
07:58:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:00:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
08:01:56 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:02:46 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
08:04:47 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
08:07:31 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-694-ga0108bb: Merge branch 'master' into council_god 10(in the future, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0108bb5d490
08:08:50 -!- quinn has joined ##crawl-dev
08:08:51 -!- quinn has quit [Client Quit]
08:11:30 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
08:11:40 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:13:26 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
08:23:43 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev
08:28:33 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
08:29:58 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:41:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:41:38 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
08:44:14 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
08:54:05 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/430 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430
08:54:05 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-473-g1d451c1: Implement the Ieoh Jian Council 10(in the future, 101 files, 1725+ 74-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d451c11dc4c
08:54:05 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-474-g6b83aca: Description and messaging tweaks 10(in the future, 4 files, 9+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b83aca315bf
08:54:05 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-475-gd3cdd74: Refactor and remove leftover code 10(in the future, 14 files, 14+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d3cdd74201a0
08:54:07 <SteelNeuron> !tell gammafunk the rebased PR for the council god is up :) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430
08:54:07 <Sequell> SteelNeuron: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
08:55:15 -!- circsquare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
08:56:40 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:08:01 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
09:20:28 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host]
09:33:08 -!- dondy1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5]
09:34:40 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:42:21 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
09:59:12 -!- Trolololo has quit [Quit: Page closed]
10:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:02:17 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
10:13:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
10:14:10 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:19:23 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:32:03 <Cheibriados> Shopping list total cost is shown wrong due to duplicate items. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10902 by Yermak
10:37:35 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:39:51 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
10:48:25 <Yermak> Why lesser beckoning anger allies?
10:48:31 <Yermak> why does*
10:56:20 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
10:59:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev
11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:00:54 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:13:05 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:15:35 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:22:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:38:47 -!- GauHelldragon2 is now known as GauHelldragon
11:44:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:44:48 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:52:00 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:52:05 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:04:37 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev
12:05:11 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-472-g5c05303 (34)
12:10:45 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev
12:11:27 <Doesnty> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc#L194 i don't think panlords set up their defenses correctly
12:13:23 <Doesnty> this line should be ev = total_def - ac;
12:13:28 <Doesnty> if i'm reading it right?
12:16:06 <Doesnty> if the current behavior is actually desirable it should be ev = total_def;
12:16:09 <Doesnty> to be less confusing
12:16:13 <Doesnty> since ev is always 0
12:17:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host]
12:17:39 <Yermak> I think you're right, and one of their defences is always scy-rocketed.
12:17:45 <Yermak> sky*
12:18:36 <Yermak> I always thought their buff was too big.
12:18:47 <Yermak> And it urned out to be a bug.
12:24:36 <MarvinPA> the actual intended behaviour there also seems sort of not great
12:26:05 <MarvinPA> results in lots of panlords with 0 in one of ac/ev, and looks like it makes it pretty easy for them just to have really low total defenses overall
12:26:57 <MarvinPA> i guess the latter was similarly possible before
12:27:11 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:29:46 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev
12:30:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:31:45 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-473-g4e2cedd: Fix random panlord defenses (Doesnty) 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e2cedd21ea2
12:31:45 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-474-g6d2f28a: Don't give random panlords 0 AC/EV 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6d2f28a8a21d
12:39:08 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev
12:39:54 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev
12:42:10 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev
12:44:56 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:45:23 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:47:19 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:52:29 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
12:56:24 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host]
13:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:09:27 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-474-g6d2f28a (34)
13:18:44 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
13:18:45 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed]
13:19:13 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:24:28 <|amethyst> ??objstat[2
13:24:28 <Sequell> objstat[2/2]: Spreadsheets for all releases: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing ; See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing
13:28:54 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
13:32:55 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:38:22 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev
13:38:33 <Rast-> hey devs, so I'm reading through branch-data.h
13:38:52 <Rast-> if I want to remove a branch, is it enough to just comment out the section?
13:39:09 <Rast-> or will i need to make changes in other files?
13:42:45 <|amethyst> Rast-:  set it up like BRANCH_DWARF is there
13:42:56 <Rast-> alternately, would it be better to change the branch entry depth to ensure it never spawns? like
13:43:03 <|amethyst> yeah, that
13:43:07 <Rast-> ah ok
13:43:17 <|amethyst> set mindepth and maxdepth to -1, and depth to 0
13:43:25 <|amethyst> not sure if the last part is important, but might as well
13:44:48 <|amethyst> oh, you might want to change its place in danger_branch_order (not logical_branch_order)
13:46:10 <|amethyst> oh, and I guess add it to branch_is_unfinished
13:46:31 <|amethyst> hmm
13:46:41 <Rast-> does absdepth affect how tough the monsters are?
13:47:13 <Rast-> im thinking of changing that for orc and/or lair to make on unambiguously tougher than the other
13:47:16 <|amethyst> I guess branch_is_unfinished might be more important, since I see Forest doens't have -1, -1, 0
13:47:17 <Rast-> *one
13:47:52 <|amethyst> Rast-:  it doesn't affect monster selection, since that's based directly on branch and depth
13:48:06 <|amethyst> but probably it does affect things like OODs
13:48:19 <Rast-> oh, and probably portal vault placement?
13:48:32 <|amethyst> maybe?
13:48:56 <|amethyst> hm
13:49:12 <|amethyst> no, I guess that is based on the DEPTH: of the entrance vaults
13:49:41 <Rast-> ah ok
13:49:46 <|amethyst> hm
13:49:53 <|amethyst> so I guess, for your first question
13:50:04 <|amethyst> my recommendation would be to look for everywhere BRANCH_BLADE occurs
13:51:33 <|amethyst> I think branch_is_unfinished looks like the important one
13:51:41 <|amethyst> you don't want to remove it entirely because of save compat
13:52:31 <|amethyst> huh
13:52:52 <|amethyst> I see a few places that exclude BRANCH_FOREST but not BRANCH_BLADE
13:52:56 <|amethyst> I wonder if that's a bug
13:55:27 <Rast-> got it
13:55:31 -!- tonygr has joined ##crawl-dev
13:56:05 <Rast-> this is temple btw, so my next question is where in the code are overflow altars handled
13:57:05 -!- tonygr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:57:08 <Rast-> actually nm ill search for references to branch_temple
13:59:12 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:59:45 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:01:57 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev
14:02:25 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14:02:55 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:03:24 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
14:13:11 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:13:42 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev
14:20:36 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:21:00 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev
14:25:36 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:26:55 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev
14:28:05 <gammafunk> oh
14:28:12 <gammafunk> did anyone talk to SteelNeuron about that rebase?
14:29:39 <Rast-> so i recompiled with temple removed and wiz mode mapped d:1-9
14:29:50 <Rast-> only two altars generated ... does that seem low?
14:30:24 <Rast-> I expect the game decided to put all or nearly all the altars in (unreachable) temple
14:30:24 <gammafunk> Rast-: you can just use the overflow altar detection
14:30:28 <gammafunk> there's a wizmode command for that
14:30:34 <gammafunk> it's the one that shows all branch entrances
14:31:06 <Rast-> all... i did that and it said no overflow temple
14:31:13 <Rast-> so these two were random altars
14:31:16 <gammafunk> yeah
14:31:22 <Rast-> ill try a new game
14:31:24 <gammafunk> so you've broken the overflow altar code
14:31:41 <Rast-> isnt it more likely that all of them are in temple?
14:32:00 <Rast-> Branch 24 (a ziggurat) is on Depths:4; ----; Overflow temples: ; 1 on D:2 (Kikubaaqudgha)
14:32:00 <Rast-> 2 on D:3 (Makhleb; Cheibriados); 3 on D:4 (Sif Muna; Zin; Vehumet); 2 on D:5 (Ru; Hepliaklqana)
14:32:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
14:32:20 <Rast-> i was just "unlucky" that in the first game i rolled a full temple
14:32:23 <gammafunk> %git 1d451c11dc4c2d97cc279eb81c8bc98fbd949293
14:32:23 <Cheibriados> 07PabloMansanet02 * 0.20-a0-473-g1d451c1: Implement the Ieoh Jian Council 10(5 hours ago, 101 files, 1725+ 74-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d451c11dc4c
14:32:25 <Rast-> (I think)
14:32:31 <gammafunk> Rast-: why would overflow altars be placed in temple
14:32:42 <gammafunk> they're all defined to place as non-temple vaults
14:32:50 <Rast-> gammafunk, I mean that all altars wree in temple to no overflow altars were needed
14:32:57 <Rast-> *so no
14:33:12 <gammafunk> well, I don't know exactly what you did to temple placement, so
14:33:16 <gammafunk> I would phrase it as
14:33:19 <Rast-> I didn't remove temple so much as make its entrace never place
14:33:22 <gammafunk> "overflow altar placement simply doesn't occur"
14:33:59 <gammafunk> but again I don't know specifically what you've changed in the code
14:34:14 <gammafunk> if you rigged it to always place all altars in temple, then sure
14:34:33 <gammafunk> my guess is that overflow placement isn't happening because some data is missing, or something
14:34:51 <Rast-> no, the second game I got a handful of overflow altars
14:34:57 <Rast-> the only thing i changed was making temple entrance not place
14:35:22 <gammafunk> hrm, I'm not sure if 0 overflow altars is a thing that happens, though, in a normal game
14:35:36 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
14:35:44 <Rast-> gammafunk, some temple maps place every altar
14:35:44 <gammafunk> but it any case, you would expect lack of altar placement if you don't allow access to temple
14:35:58 <gammafunk> right but that doesn't mean necessarily that 0 overflows occur
14:36:04 <gammafunk> you can get overflows of altars that are in temple
14:36:12 <SteelNeuron> hi gammafunk
14:36:17 <SteelNeuron> I think you told me about the rebase yourself heh
14:36:21 <gammafunk> anyhow, I don't know what you're trying to do, Rast-
14:36:30 <SteelNeuron> (or I looked at it in the chat logs, I can't remember)
14:36:31 <gammafunk> SteelNeuron: yes, so for that commit message
14:36:35 <Rast-> hmm i need to read initialise_temples()
14:36:51 <gammafunk> you just have a list of the commit messages of the squashed commits
14:37:03 <gammafunk> what you'd want it to be is a description of the current god
14:37:11 <gammafunk> doesn't have to be super long or anything, but a few paragraphs
14:37:20 <SteelNeuron> Gotcha
14:37:35 <gammafunk> just detailing the god's theme, powers (at each piety level), conducts
14:37:45 <gammafunk> anything you'd like people to understand
14:38:39 <SteelNeuron> I see, I'm on it then :)
14:39:17 <SteelNeuron> The language should be mostly technical, right?
14:39:27 <SteelNeuron> This is for devs to read
14:40:54 <gammafunk> SteelNeuron: well you can include some technical info after the god desc if you think that's relevant, but actually it should be a "god design description"
14:42:43 <gammafunk> my suggestion would be something like "god theme and design intent paragraph", "list of powers, passives, and conducts", "closing paragraph with any high-level technical details for someone reading the commit"
14:43:05 <gammafunk> none of these have to be long
14:45:14 <SteelNeuron> Stupid question, are commit messages actually in markdown?
14:45:25 <SteelNeuron> I never considered that
14:45:34 <SteelNeuron> Nah, of course not, don't mind me
14:45:52 <MarvinPA> writing that stuff up in brief is also a good opportunity to notice things that are still overcomplicated
14:46:02 <MarvinPA> like whirlwind not working on plants/nonliving creatures!
14:46:17 <SteelNeuron> oh!
14:46:21 <SteelNeuron> you mean firewood?
14:46:30 <MarvinPA> no, it specifically checks for those holinesses
14:46:34 <SteelNeuron> Ah no, I see what you mean
14:46:39 <SteelNeuron> yeah, I could do away with that tbh
14:46:48 <SteelNeuron> but it just felt weird to strike the "pressure points" in an orb of fire
14:46:56 <SteelNeuron> or to distract an orb of destruction ;)
14:47:08 <SteelNeuron> what do you think?
14:47:10 <MarvinPA> but it makes sense on a curse toe?
14:47:12 <gammafunk> orbs of fire have a lot of stress
14:47:20 <gammafunk> v. tense creatures
14:47:53 <gammafunk> there are things like slimify
14:48:01 <gammafunk> slimify works only on living and undead
14:48:14 <gammafunk> not on demons or on non-living
14:48:31 <SteelNeuron> to be fair, pressure points work on the undead so why not
14:49:53 <MarvinPA> on the topic of whirlwind, looks like it should use an adjacent_iterator to get targets
14:52:03 <SteelNeuron> oh, can I see an example of that?
14:54:40 <MarvinPA> !source _spatter_neighbours
14:54:40 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/bloodspatter.cc#L223
14:54:58 <SteelNeuron> btw re: nonliving and plant, I'm going to make it affect everything but change the message for these
14:55:24 <MarvinPA> just a simpler way of iterating over the possible targets than rotating a coord_def
14:55:25 <SteelNeuron> Like... "the Orb of Destruction loses track of you" instead of "Is distracted by your jump"
14:55:35 <SteelNeuron> I see, thanks!
14:56:00 <MarvinPA> i guess cleave does it with a rotation rather than an adjacent_iterator so that it can randomly pick a direction and hit targets in order
14:56:11 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:56:52 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev
14:56:59 <SteelNeuron> yeah, I just copied the code from cleave without thinking about it much
14:57:04 <SteelNeuron> Now that you're looking at this btw
14:57:10 <SteelNeuron> I did something a bit ugly but I didn't know how to do it better
14:57:27 <SteelNeuron> when I project a weapon at a tile with a monster in it, I want the weapon to be summoned adjacent to that monster
14:58:02 <SteelNeuron> I tried to spawn a monster at the target location with BEH_FORCE_POSITION (or something like that) imagining that it would force the summon to be as close to the spot as possible
14:58:15 <SteelNeuron> but it seems it doesn't quite do that, there is a 2 tile radius where it can appear
14:58:28 <SteelNeuron> so I ended up manually iterating around the enemy location trying to find an empty spot to spawn
14:58:38 <SteelNeuron> and if that fails, just normally summoning on top of it
14:58:48 <SteelNeuron> feels like I'm missing the elegant way to do that
15:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:01:10 <MarvinPA> that should be an adjacent_iterator if nothing else too, dunno if there is a way to do that otherwise
15:03:03 <MarvinPA> pretty much all monster summons work that way with a 2 tile radius though
15:08:38 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12:04 -!- nd has joined ##crawl-dev
15:13:23 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-475-g6a4234e: Make Iron Giants more selective 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6a4234eb5618
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-476-g6418979: Make Poisonous Vapours only hit visible targets 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 10+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64189790a35b
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-477-g7ccf162: Make acid dragons (& scales) less blinding 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ccf1629eedd
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-478-gab32824: Improve Apportation spellpower dependence 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab328243a1de
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-479-g6efe0ef: Prefer autopickup items for apport 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 30+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6efe0ef7586a
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-480-g4aad59f: Give Hellbinder & Cloud Mage sInv 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4aad59fee487
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-481-gc945ec9: Add a Searing Ray reminder message (dpeg) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c945ec94ee85
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-482-g3c57230: Improve Ray status line (dpeg) 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 23+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c572303ee44
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-483-ged69ad6: Ban Cigotuving orc corpses under Beogh 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 18+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed69ad698dae
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-484-g22d579f: Remove Cerebovscumming 10(2 hours ago, 6 files, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22d579f75bbd
15:16:55 <Cheibriados> ... and 3 more commits
15:17:39 <Rast-> I know something better that could be done with Apportation...
15:18:43 <MarvinPA> nice
15:18:51 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev
15:18:58 <Rast-> nice Pleasingfungus
15:18:58 <MarvinPA> good nerf to dual-wielding swords of cerebov
15:19:36 <Pleasingfungus> ya
15:19:50 <Pleasingfungus> it's important.
15:20:35 <Pleasingfungus> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-14-january-2017 also, changelog post
15:21:11 <Rast-> im not going to read that until demise does a video about it
15:21:16 <Pleasingfungus> lmao
15:22:57 <Rast-> just combine digging and disint already
15:23:32 <SteelNeuron> ughhhh
15:23:39 <SteelNeuron> I don't understand amending sometimes
15:23:44 <SteelNeuron> I spent half an hour working on a commit message
15:23:48 <SteelNeuron> and I just lost it :/
15:23:53 <Pleasingfungus> ?
15:24:05 <ontoclasm> when you amend doesn't it keep the old message?
15:24:07 <SteelNeuron> can you amend a commit that isn't at your HEAD?
15:24:16 <Pleasingfungus> you have to use rebase for that
15:24:21 <Pleasingfungus> git commit --amend just touches HEAD
15:24:35 <SteelNeuron> aaah christ, okay :')
15:24:37 <Pleasingfungus> well, maybe there's some other way to do it... git has many ways to do things. but that's how
15:24:39 <Pleasingfungus> also
15:24:44 <Pleasingfungus> what do you mean by 'lost'
15:24:55 <Pleasingfungus> i think you may be able to recover your message, depending on how you 'lost' it
15:25:28 <SteelNeuron> So I'm using vim as my editor, finished the amend, exited, didn't bother to read any of what the command returned (assumed it was fine) and checked out a different branch
15:25:42 <SteelNeuron> then went back to the branch I thought I had amended, hit git log, and the old message is there
15:26:08 <Pleasingfungus> i don't suppose the message is still in the scrollback?
15:28:07 <SteelNeuron> Nope, I just grepped pretty much my entire SSD for one of the words I wrote and no luck ;)
15:28:11 <SteelNeuron> Oh well
15:28:21 <SteelNeuron> Next time I will write it on a text file first
15:28:45 <Pleasingfungus> sorry!
15:33:27 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-488-gd88b9fc: Don't let Beogh gift highlevel weapons to low level orcs 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d88b9fce968e
15:33:27 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-489-g45aadb5: Adjust Searing Ray's prompt 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45aadb5abb7f
15:33:27 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-490-g2d938b1: Fix a warning 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d938b16c4b1
15:34:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:34:25 <Pleasingfungus> noo! it was one in a million...
15:34:28 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
15:34:58 <Pleasingfungus> good raysear tweak, also
15:34:59 <MarvinPA> it was just too op...
15:35:12 <MarvinPA> so many beogh nerfs just now
15:35:22 <Pleasingfungus> a dark day!
15:35:22 <MarvinPA> i suppose that's the real use case of cerebovscumming too!
15:35:40 <Pleasingfungus> hadn't even thought of that
15:35:43 <Doesnty> if beogh didn't exist i would argue for retaining cerebovscumming
15:35:55 <Doesnty> i think it's funnier for him to own like fifty swords
15:38:08 <MarvinPA> your barachian comment made me think "why do they hate crabs so much" at first
15:38:48 <Pleasingfungus> heh
15:38:50 <Pleasingfungus> console players...!
15:46:11 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:51:40 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:51:59 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev
15:58:49 -!- nd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:01:40 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]]
16:06:34 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:07:39 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev
16:09:17 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-490-g2d938b1 (34)
16:10:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
16:14:45 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-473-ge19e2c1: Implement the Ieoh Jian Council 10(7 hours ago, 98 files, 1685+ 70-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e19e2c100c87
16:14:51 <SteelNeuron> gammafunk: rebased again and rewrote the commit message, hope that looks good now
16:15:08 <SteelNeuron> and MarvinPA: Removed the holiness exceptions and added the adjacent iterators
16:15:53 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:19:15 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:20:21 <SteelNeuron> ugh, conflicts now, remerging
16:33:28 <SteelNeuron> done
16:34:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host]
16:35:22 <Cheibriados> 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-492-gf8b81ac: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(in the future, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8b81acfb531
16:40:36 <gammafunk> SteelNeuron: that looks a lot better, thanks
16:42:36 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44:14 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev
16:47:28 -!- Boatshow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:51:34 <SteelNeuron> no problem. If there's anything else I should do, let me know
16:52:53 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:55:25 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:58:16 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:02:55 -!- Moanerette has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:07:39 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:09:44 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev
17:18:15 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev
17:21:49 <Cheibriados> Poisonous Vapours issue - Reveals enchanted rPois armour on enemies 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10903 by Spectrina
17:23:11 <dpeg> !seen SteelNeuron
17:23:11 <Sequell> I last saw SteelNeuron at Sat Jan 14 21:51:33 2017 UTC (31m 37s ago) saying 'no problem. If there's anything else I should do, let me know' on ##crawl-dev.
17:24:30 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:33:11 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:36:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host]
17:45:43 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
17:56:05 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:58:09 <SteelNeuron> looking for me dpeg ?
17:58:33 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:59:21 <dpeg> SteelNeuron: I wondered why you fight so vehemently for the HE :)
17:59:34 <dpeg> He's HE-Man!
17:59:49 <SteelNeuron> Haha
17:59:58 <SteelNeuron> I couldn't care less about the current HE, honestly
18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:00:40 -!- Tiltorax has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:00:45 <SteelNeuron> My point is that elves are a wide concept with a lot of lore, and that it could be possible to salvage, if anything, the name of the race for the people who like them
18:01:16 -!- peeb has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:01:21 <SteelNeuron> with a new set of mechanics
18:01:40 <dpeg> yes, but why?
18:01:49 <dpeg> I think this approach is fundamentally wrong.
18:02:09 <dpeg> it's like reaching out to paying customers, lest they get angry
18:02:38 <SteelNeuron> I see your point
18:02:50 <SteelNeuron> But I don't think of it so much as caving in to pressure
18:03:18 <SteelNeuron> But to find a way to make a fantasy staple work on this context
18:03:28 <dpeg> we have the luxury of not having to worry about that... so we can be more honest/radical/selfish (take your pick)
18:03:34 <SteelNeuron> Hm
18:03:43 <SteelNeuron> I often wonder if it would be a good idea to remove all tokien-ish races
18:03:52 <SteelNeuron> I don't particularly like orcs or dwarves either
18:04:03 <dpeg> two devs invented new species, and they could choose all the flavour in the world, one picked dogs and the other picked frogs :P
18:04:13 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev
18:04:24 <dpeg> hey, I made DD specifically to be pre-Tolkien dwarves!
18:04:31 <SteelNeuron> speaking of DD
18:04:44 <SteelNeuron> I have a vague idea for a DD rework, if DD is actually in need of a rework
18:05:02 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:05:12 <SteelNeuron> or maybe for a possible other race? I don't know. Just a vague idea that might work in some context
18:05:40 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
18:05:53 <dpeg> I am not sure what's the current state of DD. It was my attempt with "no healing over time" in Crawl, and I cannot say if it works so well (I wouldn't be angry if DD got cut). This is not about power level, of course.
18:06:07 <SteelNeuron> a tiered buff (restless) that gives you damage shaving, and increases with XP until you reach the maximum tier (5) which is fairly strong shaving
18:06:20 <SteelNeuron> however, the tiers reduce your natural healing, and after tier 2 you don't heal at all
18:06:24 <SteelNeuron> but here's the catch, if you rest, you lose it
18:06:48 -!- orionstein has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:06:54 <dpeg> seems hard on the interface
18:07:18 <SteelNeuron> yeah, it would have to be handled similarly to bloodless
18:07:28 <dpeg> it's also a little bit like Vp... you said it :)
18:07:30 <SteelNeuron> with something enigmatic like "Become desensitized as you spend time awake"
18:08:52 <dpeg> I also have no idea if there's a dev opinion on Vp. We (jpeg and I) took jarmok's patch and did something with it... probably the species would be better if you could just set bloodlevel somewhere.
18:08:57 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev
18:10:06 <SteelNeuron> hm
18:10:11 <SteelNeuron> I've always had a soft spot for Vp
18:10:17 -!- orionstein has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:10:21 <SteelNeuron> even back in the days where going batform would leave you encumbered
18:10:29 <SteelNeuron> I hated that so much
18:11:05 <Lasty> !tell lasty make sunlight targeter indicate actual radius
18:11:06 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let lasty know.
18:11:21 <dpeg> I once had a strange batform in Shoals... couldn't die, couldn't leave the level (forget the details)
18:12:23 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev
18:12:40 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:15:08 <SteelNeuron> weird
18:15:13 <SteelNeuron> I mean, it is a fiddly species
18:15:28 <SteelNeuron> I have the suspicion that if it were to be proposed from scratch now, it wouldn't be well received
18:15:46 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-490-g2d938b1 (34)
18:15:47 <SteelNeuron> but vampires are a fantasy staple that I'll defend to death ;)
18:16:05 <SteelNeuron> rework it all you like but I want Vp to stay!
18:16:14 <dpeg> to the undeath, I dearly hope!
18:16:26 <Lasty> Vp is definitely the most baroque remaining species
18:16:26 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
18:16:31 <dpeg> bonus points: Vampires not by Tolkien
18:17:17 <dpeg> (that's a joke!)
18:17:21 <SteelNeuron> I enjoy trying to imagine how the Tavern's response would be to some of the game mechanics, were they proposed now :)
18:17:52 <SteelNeuron> I think some very well liked things  would have a catastrophic reception... Felids for example
18:17:53 <dpeg> people have thrown tantrums over removal of item weights
18:18:05 <SteelNeuron> I mean, felids are a tough sell on paper!
18:18:17 <dpeg> this one guy quit when regeneration moved from ring to amulet?!
18:18:40 <SteelNeuron> wait, really?
18:18:45 <Lasty> I wouldn't call felids well-liked
18:18:57 <SteelNeuron> relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1172/
18:19:00 <dpeg> I think that octopodes are really popular
18:19:07 <dpeg> !beer Eronarn__
18:19:08 * Sequell slides a stein of imperial stout down the bar to Eronarn__, courtesy of dpeg.
18:19:14 <Lasty> octopodes are fun
18:19:21 <dpeg> yes, I love them too
18:19:29 <Lasty> !greatrace op lasty
18:19:33 <Sequell> lasty is a greatoctopode!
18:21:53 <SteelNeuron> But that's what made crawl interesting for me
18:21:57 <SteelNeuron> some of the flavour is so bizarre
18:22:14 <SteelNeuron> Octopodes, nemelex..
18:22:24 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:22:35 <dpeg> yes, I think Crawl's mature enough to move away from the staples (of which there still is plenty in the game...)
18:25:22 <SteelNeuron> At the same time, it is good to have some anchor points I think
18:25:30 <SteelNeuron> when you're new, you are likely to pick the human before the vine stalker
18:26:49 <dpeg> sure
18:26:57 <MarvinPA> i mean if that were actually the case you'd assume human would have a lot more playtime
18:27:11 <dpeg> the tutorial species are chosen on purpose
18:27:15 <MarvinPA> ds and octopode are two of the most popular races
18:27:30 <dpeg> so cool <3
18:27:33 <SteelNeuron> just out of curiosity
18:27:36 <SteelNeuron> what are your favorite races?
18:29:02 <MarvinPA> naga, ds, dg, dr probably
18:29:10 <dpeg> Og Na Fo DS Op... I should play more VS
18:31:30 <SteelNeuron> Ds Dr Te here
18:31:46 <SteelNeuron> I really like being in for surprises
18:31:50 <SteelNeuron> Well, and flying
18:32:39 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:32:47 <dpeg> I guess there's untapped design space for branching out species.
18:34:49 <SteelNeuron> Constructs could fit there
18:34:54 -!- Dark-Jedi has quit [Quit: If it breaks, you get to keep both backports.]
18:35:08 <SteelNeuron> Although it seems none of the construct proposals have made it yet, and there have been a few
18:38:58 <dpeg> hm, I guess if no active devs likes some particular species, and then someone suggests removal, it'll happen
18:43:48 <Rast-> learn add dpeg "if no active devs likes some particular species, and then someone suggests removal, it'll happen"
18:43:50 -!- Variner has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:45:18 <Floodkiller> should replace "some particular species" with "x"
18:45:41 <bhaak> that's a sensible stand as it prevents bit rot
18:46:15 <dpeg> Floodkiller: I was just trying to explain how HE removal happened :)
18:46:42 <Floodkiller> I know, and I agree with that sentiment honestly
18:49:03 <Floodkiller> I got suggestions that I should name the dog species to High Elves, and I can just imagine how quickly everyone would come in to ask why they are being nerfed/changed
18:50:05 <Rast-> dpeg, to be fair moving regen to amulet was a nerf.
18:51:23 <dpeg> Rast-: sure, but in the big scheme of things not a notable one
18:52:03 <dpeg> I would defend DE! Last elf standing.
18:52:05 <Rast-> Floodkiller, more seriously, rename deep elves to elves and give them a couple slightly better apts
18:52:10 <Rast-> !apt de
18:52:10 <Sequell> DE: Fighting: -2*, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 0, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 3, Shields: -2, UC: -2*, Splcast: 3!, Conj: 1, Hexes: 3, Charms: 4!, Summ: 1, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: -2, MP: 2!
18:53:01 <Rast-> like bump HP up to -1 and long blades up to 0
18:53:03 <Floodkiller> Fighting to -1, Long to 0, Air to 1
18:53:36 <Rast-> right, earth apt down to -1 or whatever
18:53:43 <Rast-> not for any kind of balance, just flavor
18:54:36 <dpeg> but DE have a fine niche atm, don't they?
18:54:44 <Rast-> they would have the same niche just with slightly better hp
18:54:54 <Rast-> and those who wanted could still use them like old high elves
18:54:56 <Rast-> !apt he
18:54:56 <Sequell> HE: Fighting: N/A, Short: N/A, Long: N/A, Axes: N/A, Maces: N/A, Polearms: N/A, Staves: N/A, Slings: N/A, Bows: N/A, Xbows: N/A, Throw: N/A, Armour: N/A, Dodge: N/A, Stealth: N/A, Shields: N/A, UC: N/A, Splcast: N/A, Conj: N/A, Hexes: N/A, Charms: N/A, Summ: N/A, Nec: N/A, Tloc: N/A, Tmut: N/A, Fire: N/A, Ice: N/A, Air: N/A, Earth: N/A, Poison: N/A, Inv: N/A, Evo: N/A, Exp: N/A, HP: N/A, MP: N/A
18:55:00 <Rast-> dammit Sequell
18:56:05 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:58:07 <Rast-> why do DE have a good staff apt?
18:58:28 -!- Insomniak has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:58:30 <Rast-> is the connection DE --> wizards --> magical staves --> quarterstaves ?
18:58:31 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:01:09 <dpeg> who knows
19:03:55 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6]
19:05:29 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:07:48 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:10:10 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:12:20 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:12:36 <minmay> DE and Te are pretty much trying to be the same thing
19:13:04 <minmay> (as were HE and SE, though those were a little closer to Hu)
19:13:35 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:14:27 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:17:13 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:17:54 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:20:02 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
19:21:00 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:22:36 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:24:07 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
19:30:11 <Rast-> !tell pleasingfungus I don't think that was the best way to fix cerebovscumming
19:30:11 <Sequell> Rast-: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
19:32:26 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:34:17 <Rast-> !tell pleasingfungus it would be better if make_item_unrandart() checked UNIQ_EXISTS instead of just setting it
19:34:18 <Sequell> Rast-: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
19:35:06 <gammafunk> you should !tell pleasingfungus $(!glasses) for good measure
19:39:21 <Rast-> i dont know what that does :P
19:42:01 <gammafunk> it creates happiness.
19:48:06 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:51:27 -!- Boatshow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
19:52:27 <Rast-> !tell pleasingfungus so you dont end up with special cases all over the place
19:52:28 <Sequell> Rast-: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
19:52:29 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev
19:52:32 <Rast-> wow
19:53:08 -!- victorclf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:53:43 <Pleasingfungus> i honestly thought we already had some function that only sometimes turned things unto unrands
19:53:45 <Pleasingfungus> hrm
19:54:59 <Rast-> Pleasingfungus, probably one related to placing stuff in vaults
19:55:07 -!- Boatshow_ is now known as Boatshow
19:55:31 <Pleasingfungus> yes
19:55:38 <Rast-> i was reading through wizlab.des and saw:
19:55:38 <Rast-> mons("patrolling moon troll ; moon troll leather armour")
19:55:49 <Rast-> (is that lua?)
19:55:52 <Pleasingfungus> yes
19:55:58 <Pleasingfungus> that syntax is relatively modern, too
19:56:16 <Pleasingfungus> used to be you had to say something like " ; troll leather armour unrand:moon_troll_leather_armour"
19:56:28 <Rast-> so i dont know where in the code that lua function is but i bet it checks if the fixedart already exists
19:56:54 <Rast-> which IMO  make_item_unrandart() should also be doing
19:56:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:57:39 <gammafunk> moon troll...
19:58:02 <Pleasingfungus> it does check if the fixedart exists, but i don't remember where the relevant code is, either. which is why i'm grepping around for it.
19:58:51 <Pleasingfungus> ha
19:58:59 <Pleasingfungus> !source items.cc:1873
19:59:00 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/items.cc#L1873
19:59:08 <Pleasingfungus> er
19:59:13 <Pleasingfungus> !source makeitem.cc:1873
19:59:13 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc#L1873
19:59:18 <Pleasingfungus> ^ that one
19:59:47 <Pleasingfungus> (unrands are represented in items() parameters as a negative ego. it's really good)
20:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:00:30 <Pleasingfungus> interestingly, make_item_unrandart() returns a bool, presumably success; this is always 'true'
20:02:23 <Rast-> so one thing you could do is keep on with the current make_item_unrandart() behavior of not checking if the fixedart exists, relying on the caller to check first
20:02:35 <Rast-> which is done in some places but not others
20:03:12 <Rast-> I think the, uh, more elgant way is for make_item_unrandart() to enforce the uniqueness of uniques
20:03:48 -!- Implojin has quit [Client Quit]
20:05:40 <Pleasingfungus> i got it the first two times you said that
20:05:41 <Pleasingfungus> yes
20:05:44 <Rast-> sorry
20:05:50 <Pleasingfungus> :P
20:05:51 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:06:23 <Rast-> also, if you want to get fancy, you could add another parameter to the function that tells it how to behave if the unique already exists
20:06:47 <Rast-> make it optional (im not good with the terminology here)
20:06:56 <Pleasingfungus> i literally have already written this code
20:06:57 <Rast-> so default behavior would be to return no item if the unique exists
20:06:58 <Pleasingfungus> like
20:07:09 <Pleasingfungus> i started working on this after you mentioned it
20:07:16 <Rast-> haha OK
20:07:35 <Pleasingfungus> please do not back-seat code @ me!
20:08:43 <Rast-> OK. my thought is that sometimes the caller might want to force the randart even if it already exists. i dont know why, but maybe someone would want that.
20:08:52 <Rast-> *force the fixedart
20:09:11 <Rast-> or sometimes it might want to get a randart instead of nothing at all
20:09:21 * Rast- shrugs
20:09:51 <Pleasingfungus> oh
20:09:55 <Pleasingfungus> no i misunderstood you
20:09:56 <Pleasingfungus> like
20:09:58 <Pleasingfungus> that seems confused
20:10:18 <Pleasingfungus> why would you call a function to make a fixedart to say "actually always give me a randart loosely based on this fixedart, even if the fixedart already exists"
20:10:29 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:10:41 <Rast-> well for instance if cerebov calls for his sword but the player already has the sword
20:10:51 <Rast-> maybe he could get a randart. though that could be farmable
20:11:01 <Rast-> maybe just give him a vanilla unbranded sword
20:11:02 <Pleasingfungus> but
20:11:04 <Pleasingfungus> in that case
20:11:10 <Pleasingfungus> the fixedart already exists
20:11:16 <Pleasingfungus> so your optional parameter is irrelevant
20:12:15 <Lightli> clearly he should come back with a backup weapon
20:12:20 <Rast-> thats what im saying
20:12:29 <Lightli> I mean as a secret thing
20:12:37 <Rast-> he doesnt want to go to battle empty handed. though he is a weird case because he can come back repeatedly
20:12:47 -!- Boatshow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:14:07 <Rast-> but more generally, if we're trying to place a particular fixedart but it already exists, we might want to place a consolation item instead of nothing
20:15:01 <Rast-> like if MTLA was spawned before you visited that wizlab, moon troll is going to be naked (I think)
20:15:09 <CanOfWorms> cerebov isn't empty handed, he has firestorm!!!
20:15:12 <Rast-> maybe the poor guy should get regular troll leather armour
20:15:26 <Rast-> CanOfWorms: cerebov isnt the best example for my argument
20:16:36 <Pleasingfungus> Rast-: no, he's not
20:16:37 <Pleasingfungus> he's going to get
20:16:42 <Pleasingfungus> randart troll leather
20:16:49 <Rast-> oh, ohk
20:17:06 <Rast-> i assume the lua is doing that? i didnt know
20:17:09 <Pleasingfungus> i mean, the code that the lua is calling
20:17:23 <Pleasingfungus> if you specify an unrand in a vault spec, it'll fallback to a randart, as of about 6-9 months ago
20:17:25 <Pleasingfungus> it's in the docs
20:17:36 <Rast-> oh nice
20:18:34 <Rast-> oh, you know what i was misreading make_item_unrandart(). never mind
20:22:23 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev
20:22:47 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:24:11 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:25:42 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev
20:27:38 <Pleasingfungus> hm
20:27:42 <Pleasingfungus> actually
20:27:47 <Pleasingfungus> this doesn't solve the cerebov disarming problem at all
20:28:28 <Pleasingfungus> since, if you just say "don't spawn cerebov with a sword if his sword has UNIQ_EXISTS", then REGARDLESS of whether you disarm him, he'll never spawn with a sword after his first appearance
20:33:07 <Rast-> oh, dammit
20:33:22 <Pleasingfungus> not an awful change in general
20:33:23 <Rast-> btw I wasn't *trying* to be rude earlier. Sorry
20:33:34 <Pleasingfungus> man no worries, it's w/e
20:34:33 <Rast-> so for the specific cerebov case,
20:34:57 <Rast-> if the player had disarmed him and then left the sword in a previous pan level
20:35:31 <Rast-> would we assume cerebov retrieved it before chasing down the player?
20:35:52 <Pleasingfungus> lol
20:36:36 <Pleasingfungus> irrelevant. we don't have any way of distinguishing between 'disarmed him and took the sword' and 'disarmed him and left the sword'
20:36:40 <Rast-> or if the player dumped it in abyss or depths:3 or a pit of lava...
20:36:55 <Pleasingfungus> we can actually tell if they dumped it in the abyss or lava
20:37:05 <Pleasingfungus> i think. not sure about lava
20:37:12 <Pleasingfungus> but depths:3 we can't tell
20:38:42 <ontoclasm> imo he should just grab it out of your inventory
20:38:55 <ontoclasm> he's the lord of demons and it's his dang sword
20:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-491-ge782c16: Define a magic number in makeitem.cc 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e782c1628e77
20:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-492-g6327889: Add a warning comment wrt unrands & ?/ 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/632788904bd5
20:40:04 <Pleasingfungus> actually, i think you'll find he's six imps stacked on top of each other
20:41:58 <Rast-> Pleasingfungus, the more I think about it the more i wish I hadn't thought about it
20:42:07 <Rast-> was cerebov scumming really so bad? ;)
20:42:16 <Pleasingfungus> hey, my solution works!
20:42:31 <Pleasingfungus> until we add some other way for him to drop his weapon and then reappear (polymorph?)
20:42:37 <Rast-> it does
20:42:55 <Pleasingfungus> i don't think you can poly cerebov
20:43:06 <Rast-> so the "demon lords chase you until slain" mechanic -- its creating a new demon lord each time right?
20:43:12 <Pleasingfungus> yep
20:43:33 <Rast-> well perhaps the existing demon lord should be stashed away and brought back out
20:44:17 <Rast-> theres already sortof a mechanic like that for monsters that get banished, I think
20:45:01 <CanOfWorms> is it actually the same monster, or a new copy....
20:45:27 <Rast-> CanOfWorms, I ass-u-med it was the same monster
20:45:40 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:45:42 <Rast-> but now im questioning all my beliefs
20:46:13 -!- Rast- is now known as rast
20:46:19 -!- removeelyvilon has joined ##crawl-dev
20:47:37 <Pleasingfungus> i don't recall how banished monsters work exactly
20:47:44 <Pleasingfungus> it's a reasonable question. they do keep items, i think
20:51:36 <removeelyvilon> K guys let me be clear on some things: A. I deeply appreciate what you do. You keep the game alive, so thank you for that. B. I didn't never gave anybody flak for removing HE, or anything else for that matter. Anybody who says otherwhise is a blatant lier. I wanted you to know that
20:51:54 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:52:09 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:57:10 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev
20:57:37 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye]
20:58:28 <geekosaur> they keep items, that was the mauriucescumming bug. which suggests the monster is copied, come to think of it...
20:58:33 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:59:29 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6]
21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:02:55 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev
21:02:57 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:05:07 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:06:00 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:08:13 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:09:16 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-492-g6327889 (34)
21:15:12 <removeelyvilon> have a restful sleep
21:15:15 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:15:16 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:16:37 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit]
21:17:43 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
21:22:59 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]]
21:35:13 -!- Elitist has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:50:11 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:52:14 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:56:36 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye]
21:59:17 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:02:07 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:06:00 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:08:57 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:09:23 -!- butze has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:10:22 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit]
22:15:03 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev
22:15:08 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit]
22:23:48 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:25:50 -!- Cerpin has quit [Read error: No route to host]
22:26:22 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev
22:29:59 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
22:36:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
22:40:26 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:47:36 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:57:15 -!- Rewans has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:11 -!- Krull has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:09:23 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6]
23:09:32 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye]
23:15:39 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:18:01 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: lates]
23:23:19 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev
23:23:23 <Pleasingfungus> The removal of haste and healing wands is a game altering change to the 15 rune ability of most race/class combos. Now there are a specific set of deities and race/class combos that give 15 rune runs a decent success chance. Everything else has a very low chance of surviving a 15 rune run (not impossible, just risky to the point of making the attempt be a foolish). Thus, this change has...
23:23:24 <Pleasingfungus> ...limited the playability of the extended end game thereby once again removing content from the game and replacing it with silly niche items.
23:30:53 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye]
23:40:24 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye]
23:45:24 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:54:49 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:55:11 <gammafunk> well
23:55:18 <gammafunk> have you 15-runed since that change?
23:55:19 <gammafunk> have you
23:55:30 <gammafunk> makes you think, dude, makes you think
23:55:59 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev
23:58:51 -!- nd has joined ##crawl-dev
23:59:29 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection]